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150 hp Daily Driver?
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MinamiKotaro
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They speak the truth. Plenty of newer cars will spank a 150HP Beetle. Technology has left the ACVW in the dust.

If you want reliable power in a car pleasant enough to be a true DD ... get something besides an ACVW. I've got a 12 second Bug that I could use for a DD. It's reliable enough. But -- if I'd spent the same amount of money on my Saturn, it would probably smoke the Bug any way you want it AND have an air conditioner, a real heater, a rear defroster, a great factory stereo, comfortable seats, etc.

Get into Bugs if you like Bugs, not if you're looking to have a street rocket. There are better choices these days.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MinamiKotaro wrote:
They speak the truth. Plenty of newer cars will spank a 150HP Beetle. Technology has left the ACVW in the dust.

If you want reliable power in a car pleasant enough to be a true DD ... get something besides an ACVW. I've got a 12 second Bug that I could use for a DD. It's reliable enough. But -- if I'd spent the same amount of money on my Saturn, it would probably smoke the Bug any way you want it AND have an air conditioner, a real heater, a rear defroster, a great factory stereo, comfortable seats, etc.

Get into Bugs if you like Bugs, not if you're looking to have a street rocket. There are better choices these days.


If you put that kind of money into a saturn you'd also look a bit of an idiot. Besides, front wheel drive has inherent issues with speed and traction.
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Chris Vellat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had 115hp at the wheels in my `67 when I was daily driving it...I'd go 14.2/3 in the 1/4 on my street radials with the belt-on using three gears...

...crazy horsepower, no, keep up with modded out modern sports cars, no. Keep up with modded sedans/coupes/compacts, sure.

I had a guy running 11.90's in his killer street driven WRX years ago approach me and my friend because he thought running in the 14's was respectable...as it were, it was faster than our other buddy's late 90's SVT.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 74 has 95RWHP in a 2332 and there is not many cars that can keep up with it stoplight to stoplight or up onramps.
But it really does have no top end. Not really a lot you can do about that in a ACVW.
But I can tell you it is real fun to drive.
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MinamiKotaro
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeviMan2001 wrote:
If you put that kind of money into a saturn you'd also look a bit of an idiot.


But not by spending it on a VW? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Besides, front wheel drive has inherent issues with speed and traction.


FWD has no trouble with speed, and there's plenty you can do to help the traction.
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LeviMan2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MinamiKotaro wrote:
LeviMan2001 wrote:
If you put that kind of money into a saturn you'd also look a bit of an idiot.


But not by spending it on a VW? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Besides, front wheel drive has inherent issues with speed and traction.


FWD has no trouble with speed, and there's plenty you can do to help the traction.


Well, you get front end lift off. If it were a FR setup, you'd get rear wheel spin unless you could get them to hook up. FF setups hook up initially then shove the weight twords the rear (think trying to to a wheelie) but that takes weight off the front, and spin ensuses. But you put the motor in the back or middle, and you get grip off the line, and it just stays right there. VWs have the perfect setup for off the line traction. Also, if you want cheap power, just subi that thing and call it a day.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok just to clarify no i have not driven a super high horse power bug just about 80-90hp but i do have an mid-10 second 67 cutlass... so kinda used to that

but as far as the car goes i think im doing it right...

The stock 1600 engine seized so i decided to build the a high HP motor but first i did the following or am in the process of finishing...

Full disc from aircooled.net
Maxx struts from topline parts
lowered the car 2.5 inches in the back 3 in the front
Front and rear sway bars
made a strut tower brace
and put a roll cage with 5 point harnesses in
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marv [UK] wrote:
TurkTurk wrote:
what going to be the difference between 44 IDF's and 45 DRLA's?

I thought I would be running IDA's on my 2165 (FK8, L6 heads) but I'm thinking I might just use some Italian 44 IDF's that are available.

This is considering that I want a cruiser/ some time DD as opposed to a light-to-light bandit.


44 idf's grow on trees relative to 45 DRLA's, apart from that, they are much of a muchness but the DRLA's would win in a fight.


Regarding the differences in DRLA and IDF.
Marv you crack me up! Laughing Well what my long time vw bud that helped me build my first engine told me was Dellorto's have an extra set of progression hole/circuit than IDF. IDF 4, DRLA 5. Plus the DRLA comes with a bigger vent? I tend to believe him since hes very knowledgeable. So... that would probably equate to having smoother transitions from certain rpm grouping to the next. If im wrong pls correct me. -Jon
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF do you need that kind of HP for except to get into trouble?

My 1995 Acura v6 has 200 HP and the top speed is 135+/- MPH. With a lighter car and 150 HP you will have more than enough HP to kill yourself if you don't break transaxles.

We had a DP 1600 that made 120 HP on a bus and that was adequate to push it almost to 90, it would certainly sustain 80 - 85. I would rethink my target here and get realistiic. 120 HP is easy and cheap to make, and it will give you many years of service too.

Also I caught something in a prior answer that concerned me a little. You said you fixed up the car for your girlfirend but then you split up and she lost it to you. Did I get that right? So I guess you actually fixed it up for you and she couldn't pay you for the parts so you took it? Is that right? Sounds like you two didn't communicate very well or someone wasn't strait up when they did the work to begin with maybe. You might want to think that through a little better next time.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:


Also I caught something in a prior answer that concerned me a little. You said you fixed up the car for your girlfriend but then you split up and she lost it to you. Did I get that right? So I guess you actually fixed it up for you and she couldn't pay you for the parts so you took it? Is that right? Sounds like you two didn't communicate very well or someone wasn't strait up when they did the work to begin with maybe. You might want to think that through a little better next time.



Umm no she said she wanted a vw so i found one for 400 bucks and got it for her as a gift then she went to Europe for 3 weeks and my uncle owns a body shop so as a surprise i painted it for her... then when we broke up i gave her the money she put into it too for the stuff we went halves on I.E. interior stuff... tires.. rims… etc etc but why do not you stick to vw advice and not my personal life you do not no the situation.

So to answer you i did that because she did not have a place for two cars or wanted to pay for insurance on both... and for your satisfaction Dr. Phil we are still friends and from time to time i even let her barrow the bug for old times sake.

Good Day.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

right - but you changed the rules.
Quote:
so i found one for 400 bucks and got it for her as a gift
and took it back. Now you are IMHO doing something else equally as impulsive and trying to overpower a daily driver. What I am saying is stick to a smaller motor, build for reliability and enjoy it. 150 HP in a daily driver is a lot of HP. We lost 4 local young people this weekend who had too many ponies, were tempted to put them to use and found out trees don't budge. If you keep the HP down a little, the cost to build falls and the cash sits in your pocket for when you see something else you like. Which you will, maybe not today or tomorrow but you will. Use your strengths to work for you.

You have to trust me on this one. When some gal you really like realizes you bought that VW for another woman that is bad enough karma she will send your way but when she finds you took it back - you have no idea the wrath that will cause down the line. And Murphy's law will apply, it will happen at a time you are least expecting it. So the more humble you make it within reason the less the chance will be that it will be used against you.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you do not get it...

but aside from the girlfriend thing lets talk vw's

i get what your saying but i want more... i have a 442 thats push well over 500 hp and runs mid to low 10's how many speeding tickets have i gotten none how many accidents none can most people handle a car like that? no, obviously i can and have for the last 3 years...


It's not what you have it is how you use it... and obviously i have not griped about the cost of building a 150 HP motor...

I figured with your magic 8 ball like insight and wisdom knowledge you would have figured that out


So please for the sake of the people who are positive(not saying your not just ENTIRELY off topic) and have something helpful to say and valuable knowledge to pass on

STOP POSTING or pm me
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krusher
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
WTF do you need that kind of HP for except to get into trouble?

My 1995 Acura v6 has 200 HP and the top speed is 135+/- MPH. With a lighter car and 150 HP you will have more than enough HP to kill yourself if you don't break transaxles.

We had a DP 1600 that made 120 HP on a bus and that was adequate to push it almost to 90, it would certainly sustain 80 - 85. I would rethink my target here and get realistiic. 120 HP is easy and cheap to make, and it will give you many years of service too.

Also I caught something in a prior answer that concerned me a little. You said you fixed up the car for your girlfirend but then you split up and she lost it to you. Did I get that right? So I guess you actually fixed it up for you and she couldn't pay you for the parts so you took it? Is that right? Sounds like you two didn't communicate very well or someone wasn't strait up when they did the work to begin with maybe. You might want to think that through a little better next time.


120hp from a 1600 and it was used in a bus?

Whats spec was this 1600?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do build a 2110 I think a stage 1/ L5/ los ponchitos head would be a better choice. It will have better port velocity with smaller intake runners. I would stick with a 40,35.5 mm valve combo. They will support 150 Hp but will give better valve train life. Bigger heads with bigger intake runners can be a little soggy down low. Ok if it is a track car as you will be living in the high RPM realm anyways and need to breathe more. I did a few years worth of research before I bought heads for my motor. Bigger aint always better except for telescopes and artillery. Ask They person porting them for you what they suggest.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

said it before and I will say it again, not even a super car 4cyl has been faster or quicker than a T1. If you want reliability, buy a honda, my brother in law has one and he never even checks the oil, it keeps on going.


fastest T1: 1/4 mile in 6.53s @ 209mph

freaking unreal
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwnewb88 wrote:
you do not get it...

but aside from the girlfriend thing lets talk vw's

i get what your saying but i want more... i have a 442 thats push well over 500 hp and runs mid to low 10's how many speeding tickets have i gotten none how many accidents none can most people handle a car like that? no, obviously i can and have for the last 3 years...


It's not what you have it is how you use it... and obviously i have not griped about the cost of building a 150 HP motor...

I figured with your magic 8 ball like insight and wisdom knowledge you would have figured that out


So please for the sake of the people who are positive(not saying your not just ENTIRELY off topic) and have something helpful to say and valuable knowledge to pass on

STOP POSTING or pm me


what do we "not get"

Karma is going to bite you in the ass, just watch Earl and see. Anyways...

you have a 500 HP 442 that weights over 2 tons and has all the weight over the wheels that do the steering in a car that isn't shaped like wing.

It's been proven that at around 100MPH, bugs put down several hundred pounds less weight on to the ground because of lift. Add into that all of the weight over the rear wheels and you have a recipe for a fast, light car going straight on no matter what the front wheels are doing. Hell, in bugs, this happens at 30 MPH on greasy roads

People aren't ragging on you for not being able to handle 500HP, only because HP in a bug is a different animal. When a bug wants to let you know it doesn't want to do something, it invariably hurts a lot. do some research and see. a 2 ton wallowing barge with a nuclear power plant up front just handles totally differently. It's called inertia for one

not having speeding tickets doesn't mean squat, it just means you know where the fuzz hang out. I've got no tickets either but my old BMW saw over 100. It's the same with accidents, no accidents can just mean the other guy got out of your way just in time.

500HP and 21 years old means luck and stupidity in my book. The "it'll never happen to me" syndrome usually goes away by the time you're in your mid twenties and a) it did happen to you, or b) it happened to one of your mates, or c) you got family in there and you've suddenly matured to acting your age, not your shoe size.

As far as it goes, everyone in this thread has said something helpful. Just because it's not what you want to hear is not their problem. A lack of understanding on your part does not equate to a lack of experience on theirs.

GO ahead, go from a 50HP 1600 to a 150HP 2276, no one is going to stop you, but when the law comes around requiring you to return your ex girlfriends gift or it's Grand Theft Auto, think about the 8 grand motor you just saw driving away. Remember, a GIFT is enforceable by Law, it's called Verbal Contract.

As I said, go ahead and build it, it's your money and hopefully only your life on the line, but remember, It's the internet. If you don't want to listen to advice thats your prerogative but it doesn't stop anyone from giving it if they want to. Thats why it's called freedom. Remember, you do not have "The right to not be offended" but you do have the right to ignore people
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question....

a 2276 with a 120 cam,some nice 40x35 heads, and 44 webers will do what you are looking for....

it will idle like stock, pull hard to about 5800-6000, have tons of low end torque, and live a long time.

as for the speed editorials...... I had this engine combo in my FG buggy and rarely went over 75mph in it......BUT the ride to 75 was NICE Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing ..... On the street you want torque not 8.5k rpm power..When can you use that high rpm power? For me, the brisk acceleration up to the speed limit is the rush. This is where the VW shines as not many, even V8 cars, can hang with you.

I am building a 2276, fk8 combo right now for my vert, and the only reason I am going a little bigger on the cam and heads is because of the extra weight. I don't want to drag race it...just have the power on tap.

Build what you want. You have a better chance of getting killed on a 600cc street bike than a 150hp vw. The statistics don't lie.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^^^^
What he said.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's with all the grandpa-ing? Rolling Eyes

The guy wants to build an engine for his bug. Everyone in this forum posting advice has (or should have) personal experience with a hi-po motor. After all, you were all in the same place once, looking for more horsepower.

He's not here for a lecture about going too fast, or how to break up with HIS girlfriend.

150 horsepower in a daily is an attainable and worthwhile goal. I've never seen anyone with the initiative to go through all the trouble of building the motor and setting up the car properly (trans, brakes, safety, etc.)... and the steadfastness to complete that project... only to wrap it around a tree the first 20 feet out of the driveway. Anyone with that much time and money invested into a project they love isn't going to rush into things dick first.

That said, I say you go with a stock stroke turbo (1776 or 1914). Easy to put together, no wild cam or head combo's, awesome torque, and the potential for GREAT gas mileage...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can relate. My first car was a 1970 cutlass with a much modified drivetrain that made close to 400 horsepower. It was street car and lots of fun, I learned a lot with / from that car. After that I had and drove two stock bugs with 1600 dp engines in them and growing up my Dad had two Beetles. I really love these cars. My current '68 Beetle has a 2110 that matches the specs in the beginning of this thread and makes the Power you seek and then some. It's also very dependable and gets decent gas mileage for what it is and the Power it makes. A 150 hp type 1 engine can live on the street with pump gas if it's properly built, tuned, and maintained.
Make no mistake, Beetles with this kind of power can be a handfull and demand respect and your attention when you drive them hard. I still rmember the first time I drove my 68 hard and it was different than anything else I had ever driven. I sometimes question if I need this kind of power in a street car as well. It is an absolute blast to drive though. Does anyone NEED this kind of Power, probably not for a DD street car. If you want to have fun at the track with it you can. If you want to drive it in traffic you can. Just be careful and responsible, easy to say but sometimes not so easy to do.
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