Sikken or PPG?

[63 vwnotch]

ok this has been a debate before on the board im sure:

Im new to frequenting this paint board so if its a bad thread .//

Im no pro auto painter but a commercial painter, adn have done a lot of different finishes in the past, which kinda helps me as an automotive painting hobbiest :crazyeyes:

I've only painted two cars before, well actually a bus two tone and my notch anthracite. Both times ive used PPG as its local to get and a dead on match.

The bus i used as a beater so i used the Omni version of PPG, the newer urethane i guess, it took some getting used to but in the long run the finish was great.. The notch which i still own i painted with two stage and used the deltron 2010 clear, beautiful paint and i was very impressed with the ease of application of the base coat...

my Question:
i now want to paint my ragtop bug, and have read some of you prefer Sikken, and even the bottom line medium grade stuff is like PPG high end grade.. hearing from the pros i want to know what i should buy for this bug, i do have some 2010 left over so i was debating on the ppg, but this sikken stuff has me going..

peace,
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BUS WANTED: 13 window BUS any year considered..

[12thstreetjunkman]

I have used lesenol, wich is the lower grade sikkens several times with great results, I have also used regular line sikkens, and the very nice autoclear3, I am sure they have a new version by now, but again I was definitly happy with the results.
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57 oval... grocery getter, parts picker upper daily driver
55 euro oval..... someday sunday driver
56 oval ex-buick v6 powered drag car.....someday back to a vw powered drag car

[Teeroy]

63vwnotch if that 2010 has been opened and is more than a month or so old I wouldn't use it . I vote you give Sikkens a try , it is a very user freindly product , and the tech manual is laid out in order from your foundation products to you top/clear coats , unlike some of the other paint lines that just add new products to the end of the old tech sheets ! , making it easy to find your mixing and spraying info . Their Colorbuild surfacer/sealer is great , the Autobase Plus base coat covers in 2 coats , and Autoclear 3 is water clear (no yellow tint like most other brands) lays out great and is easy to buff . TROY
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Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[E-boyz67]

Sikkens, for time color,and smoothness and easy to use.
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2-67
1-67vert

[63 vwnotch]

teeroy,
give me a basic idea of what the medium scaled stuff costs for a cash account walk in price? two pints of color should shoot a bug?? or should i bust a gallon??

thanx,
rob
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BUS WANTED: 13 window BUS any year considered..

[Teeroy]

Sorry for the delayed answer (pm if you need any quick replies) have only had time to answer e-mails this week , no time for the forums . First question you will have to ask your local paint jobber , I'm not up on all the current prices . Second question , I don't think two pints is going to do it , two quarts might , depending on color and which paint line you end up using (Lessenol or Sikkens) , and how much of the car you are spraying , If I had to buy it premixed (we have our own mixing machine at work) I would get a gallon to be safe , it isn't going to go bad after opening like clear or a single stage , that way you will have enough for jams or future touchups if ever neccesary , that will be mixed the same. TROY
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[Naked]

Well Ive been painting for about 14 years now and mostly used PPG (Gold certified tech) but I'm not a huge fan of it. DBC basecoat is pretty good but you have to watch your prep. If you paint a gold or silver it may show some scratches, let the base flash for a about 15 or 20 mins. and nib the base with a lil 800 or 1000 grit paper lightly. Then reapply some more color (this works for any basecoat system) DBC and Global are just prep sensitive. DBU tends to have a heavy texture to its base. Works great when you working with a bodyman who doesnt like to use a 120 or 150 to finish off his body work before you primer.
The shop I work at now we use R-M. I love this system for color match. Except we do order some Sikkens for a few of the reds that R-M doesnt seem to match to well. Most all paint lines have lesser cheaper lines. PPG has Omni, Sikkens has Lessonal. But pricing really depends on what your color is gonna be. Reds are the most expensive and usually hide pretty poorly. Ask the paint store about a ground coat of color for under reds. Usually if you spray red over lets say grey primer it could take 6 to 8 coats of base to get full coverage. But with a ground coat of a dark taupe/med brown it would cover with less than 4 coats. Now black and white are usually cheapest. White does sometimes have a poor hiding quality depending on the system. Black 2 or 3 coats total coverage. If you go with a dark blue or green pearl (I dont mean a pearl 3 stage where you spray a mixed pearl top coatover your base) but i would lay down a real dark grey almost black ground coat for those colors because they may not cover very well over a primered spot.
Now, amount of paint would depend on your color also. When I started painting I was doin those damn GM and Ford peelers. Alot of pre 91' Suburbans and vans I never used more than 3qts on any of those (PPG DBU base or DCC single stage) usually tried tinted my sealer as close to the color as possible.
The thing that well cost ya money will prolly be your clear and catalyst. A gallon of clear $100 to $125. A quart of catalyst $75 to $90.
Check out "Transtar" clear pretty good stuff and pretty cheap. It would be cheaper to buy a gallon of clear than 3 qts. of clear. You can order base in any size 1oz. to 1000+ozs. So you dont need to get a pt. qt. or gl. you can get 9oz. 24oz. 59oz. etc... Or what ever you might need if you needed to paint something small.
What ever material you buy ask the paint store to give a "P" sheet on each product you buy. Cans wont tell you anymore how to mix or use it(all that damn EPA and OSHA crap on it now in 13 different languages).
And last thing FLASH TIME ,FLASH TIME, Dont be in a big hurry to get your all your base on at once. If your not shooting in a booth that has air flow over the whole job give each coat at least 1/2 an hour flash . Most paint lines will give you a 24 hour window before you need to recoat it. Even give you longer. If its base or clear. Get it based out one night and next day go in checkit for dirt or scratches nib the spots recoat. Then you job may not get the die back (when you clear gets all hazy from the trapped solvents) it would if you had slammed on 6 coats of base and 2 or 3 coats of clear in an hour. Doesnt mean you cant buff it out after it cured. But less buffin is less work.
I need to lay down now my head hurts.

[Alika]

If the color is available in Lesonal , I'd use it for a restoration before Sikkens. Sikkens is priced higher as it's extremely beneficial for collision repair facilities (body shops) .......... that's a different subject I guess.
What color are you going to spray?
Good luck!