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What is the real difference? Mahle VS. Chinese
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19super73 wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
didget69 wrote:
True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc


Not always true at all. The Chinese parts are not examples of bad design...or bad manufacturing equipment or lack of know-how. In fact...most of the Chinese piston companie's manufacturing equipment is far newer and more advanced than virtually any other company that has been around for ages.

The issue is quality control. Some sets are excellent...some not. This has been getting much better. The AA company is not only willing to back their parts over the last year or so...they quickly make it right when your measurments find something wrong. Very good service.
I am watching a few people right now using their P&C sets having excellent results with them.
If you can find Mahles for your vehicle and the difference in price is slight...get them. Always buy the best you can.
But if you can't find what you need...don't be afraid to call these some of guys and tell them what you need.
My point is that it is 100% incorrect to say that all Chinese pistons are of less quality than anythingelse...just cause they are made in China. That is 100% not true. Ray


You do have a point but many people who rely on their vehicles or don't really want to go through the hassle of redoing a job because of a QC issue, just don't want to take the chance on buying Chinese made parts. It's Russian roulette with the Chinese made stuff moreso than North American made or European.


There is no one on this entire forum that must rely on their vehicles any more than anyone else. We all have to get to work.
Even if your ACVW is not your daily driver for work.......I could care less about missing a day at work....if the engine dies at 70 mph in the middle of 16 lanes of rush hour traffic....thats potential death I'm talking about.

None of that matters if you your VW craps in the middle of an industrial ghetto at midnight and your glock is at home because you don't have a carry license and your girlfriend is in the passenger seat. The car will be stripped...you might be dead...and she may be in the alley with someone on top of her.

So....I don't buy that "buy the best by name and country because I gotta have the ultimate in ....supposed....reputed....reliability" crap. There are few pistons around here anymore made anyplace aother than Brazil, Mexico or China...regardless of brand.
Most mahles are made in Brazil. I have seen absolute crap ...at times.....from all of these companies. In fact...through the 90's into the 00's...most VW versions of Kolbenschmidt pistons (Absolutely known to be better in most cases than Mahles)....were made in Brazil in TRW/Cofap facilities. These were superb.

It is about materials....and its about tolerance. If you are buying ANY brand of cylinders these days...and you do not at least clean, and fully inspect them ...bare minimum with feeler gauges and at best with a dial bore indicator and micrometer for piston skirts (and not a crappy slide caliper).....then you have no idea what you are putting in your engine so the country of origin does not matter whatsoever.
I have seen Mahle, Cofap, KS and an several other piston mfgs products that have come in with skirts out of spec and cylinders out of round or taper. I have aboslutely supposedly superb German parts...that crapped because of a manufacturing defect (distributor drive gear, maste cylinder and lifters). In this day and age....none of these manufacturers are as good as they were.

As for other comments.....I agree about rubber parts. Lots of issues with rubber compounding and prcoessing and the expense is just not worth the risk. Lots of plastic parts the same way. I ahve not seen enough good work out of China or Brazil to warrant spending the money.

But we are talking about pistons and cylinders here....not everything else. And...there HAS been enough testing and feedback to say that the Chinese pistons are quite worthwhile. For a street stocker.....I have seen no differences in performance or reliability in the sets and builds that I am watching.

I realize that I am primarily out of place here because I work mostly on type 4. Alot of my point of view is sheer availability. We have to look at the chinese pistons and cylinders. Actually...mostly the Chinese pistons because we rebore alot of cylinders. Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The AA Company? Are we talking about AA Performance Products? I was wondering what the quality of their 40hp/1200cc pistons were like.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From those i have spoken to personally....and from posts on the stf and other places....about 2-3 years ago there was a lot of variation in quality. The problems were mainly in cast iron casting (either alloy or method) that left too much taper top to bottom in "some" but not every set of cylinders. From what I have heard and experienced in correspondence with this company....they started working hard to fix the gripes.

The finish has always been good on both cylinders and pistons. From what I have heard, they have few out of round and taper issues in their cylinders anymore. Will they stand the test of time? The handful of people I know using them right now...have a lot more miles to go before the verdict...but I have heard no complaints so far.

The pistons appear to be slightly heavier knock-offs of Mahles and Ks's. I know they do not have the steel anti-expansion inserts under the crown. Will that be a problem in the long run? Hard to say yet. There have been in the past....plenty of pistons made without them that have done well.

The question will really be how long they will last and run well. If you get say 75,000 trouble free miles from them before the skirts collapse...is that enough? And was the price low enough to be worth slapping on new jugs again.
Again...for me....if I did not happen to have a set of NOS repco domed pistons in .5mm oversize and 8 pristine german cylinders for my 1.7L type 4 rebuild.......I would be screwed. I would have to use dished pistons...lose about 16 hp and have difficult D-jet tuning....and/or go to a totally different engine size and find a piston manufacturer (probably JE or someone)....or change to a bug 90mm piston with different rods, spacing etc etc etc. Expense...and issues.
If I did not have pistons and cylinders for this engine I am building.....my only real alternative would be AA...chinese domes and cylinders. Even at being Chinese....$279 a set is a steal...even if the quality is mediocre.
Right now a good used set of domed pistons for 1.7L....without cylinders is about $100 from someone who knows what condition they are in.
If I can find NOS...they are about $400. I would buy them if I could find them....but thats not going to happen.

If you can get decent Mahles for within $50+ of the cost of AA...get them. But otherwise....explore the possibilities. Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: A Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
But we are talking about pistons and cylinders here....not everything else. And...there HAS been enough testing and feedback to say that the Chinese pistons are quite worthwhile. For a street stocker.....I have seen no differences in performance or reliability in the sets and builds that I am watching.


Exactly, let's not turn this into an over all gripe about the quality of every part made... there are already tons of threads on that too.

There are some good threads in the perf engine forum and at least the one I linked to earlier and more in the bay bus forum about the AA perf and Mahle and other brands. It run's the gamut depening on what engine your building.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
19super73 wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
didget69 wrote:
True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc


Not always true at all. The Chinese parts are not examples of bad design...or bad manufacturing equipment or lack of know-how. In fact...most of the Chinese piston companie's manufacturing equipment is far newer and more advanced than virtually any other company that has been around for ages.

The issue is quality control. Some sets are excellent...some not. This has been getting much better. The AA company is not only willing to back their parts over the last year or so...they quickly make it right when your measurments find something wrong. Very good service.
I am watching a few people right now using their P&C sets having excellent results with them.
If you can find Mahles for your vehicle and the difference in price is slight...get them. Always buy the best you can.
But if you can't find what you need...don't be afraid to call these some of guys and tell them what you need.
My point is that it is 100% incorrect to say that all Chinese pistons are of less quality than anythingelse...just cause they are made in China. That is 100% not true. Ray


You do have a point but many people who rely on their vehicles or don't really want to go through the hassle of redoing a job because of a QC issue, just don't want to take the chance on buying Chinese made parts. It's Russian roulette with the Chinese made stuff moreso than North American made or European.


There is no one on this entire forum that must rely on their vehicles any more than anyone else. We all have to get to work.
Even if your ACVW is not your daily driver for work.......I could care less about missing a day at work....if the engine dies at 70 mph in the middle of 16 lanes of rush hour traffic....thats potential death I'm talking about.

None of that matters if you your VW craps in the middle of an industrial ghetto at midnight and your glock is at home because you don't have a carry license and your girlfriend is in the passenger seat. The car will be stripped...you might be dead...and she may be in the alley with someone on top of her.

So....I don't buy that "buy the best by name and country because I gotta have the ultimate in ....supposed....reputed....reliability" crap. There are few pistons around here anymore made anyplace aother than Brazil, Mexico or China...regardless of brand.
Most mahles are made in Brazil. I have seen absolute crap ...at times.....from all of these companies. In fact...through the 90's into the 00's...most VW versions of Kolbenschmidt pistons (Absolutely known to be better in most cases than Mahles)....were made in Brazil in TRW/Cofap facilities. These were superb.

It is about materials....and its about tolerance. If you are buying ANY brand of cylinders these days...and you do not at least clean, and fully inspect them ...bare minimum with feeler gauges and at best with a dial bore indicator and micrometer for piston skirts (and not a crappy slide caliper).....then you have no idea what you are putting in your engine so the country of origin does not matter whatsoever.
I have seen Mahle, Cofap, KS and an several other piston mfgs products that have come in with skirts out of spec and cylinders out of round or taper. I have aboslutely supposedly superb German parts...that crapped because of a manufacturing defect (distributor drive gear, maste cylinder and lifters). In this day and age....none of these manufacturers are as good as they were.

As for other comments.....I agree about rubber parts. Lots of issues with rubber compounding and prcoessing and the expense is just not worth the risk. Lots of plastic parts the same way. I ahve not seen enough good work out of China or Brazil to warrant spending the money.

But we are talking about pistons and cylinders here....not everything else. And...there HAS been enough testing and feedback to say that the Chinese pistons are quite worthwhile. For a street stocker.....I have seen no differences in performance or reliability in the sets and builds that I am watching.

I realize that I am primarily out of place here because I work mostly on type 4. Alot of my point of view is sheer availability. We have to look at the chinese pistons and cylinders. Actually...mostly the Chinese pistons because we rebore alot of cylinders. Ray


I'm not saying someone depends more on their car than another person, I also agreed with you about not ALL Chinese made parts being bad. What I stated is that there are those out there that prefer to spend the extra $$$ on something NOT MADE IN CHINA, because the risks of defects or QC problems are much lower buying parts made elsewhere. That fact you cannot deny, Chinese QC is spotty at best overall. I don't know one person who wants to tear their engine apart again because it cratered on them, "But I saved $300 by going cheap." No they didn't. They are going to spend more money on replacement parts, and use their own time or shop time to fix a situation that they could have avoided in the first place by going with a part manuacturer who has a better record of QC.

China will get there I have no doubt, they just aren't there now. Look at Japan in the 50's. Back then it was "Japanese Junk" and by the 80's some of the highest quality items were coming from Japan.

Lastly, you have the luxury, I assume, of not caring about missing work, I don't. If I can chose a manufacturer that has a higher consistency of holding up, that's where I am going to go vs. gambling on a part that might get me there, or it might not.
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You think if he had a woman he would have half the stupid shit he's been doing? No way man. This is single guy stuff. A wife would have just laid into him until he left that thing in a supermarket parking lot and rode the dog home to get his beating.

JerryMCarter1 wrote:
If it is something just stuck eventually it will wear down and go away.
Run it for awhile and see if it gets quieter
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

19super73 wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
19super73 wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
didget69 wrote:
True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc


Not always true at all. The Chinese parts are not examples of bad design...or bad manufacturing equipment or lack of know-how. In fact...most of the Chinese piston companie's manufacturing equipment is far newer and more advanced than virtually any other company that has been around for ages.

The issue is quality control. Some sets are excellent...some not. This has been getting much better. The AA company is not only willing to back their parts over the last year or so...they quickly make it right when your measurments find something wrong. Very good service.
I am watching a few people right now using their P&C sets having excellent results with them.
If you can find Mahles for your vehicle and the difference in price is slight...get them. Always buy the best you can.
But if you can't find what you need...don't be afraid to call these some of guys and tell them what you need.
My point is that it is 100% incorrect to say that all Chinese pistons are of less quality than anythingelse...just cause they are made in China. That is 100% not true. Ray


You do have a point but many people who rely on their vehicles or don't really want to go through the hassle of redoing a job because of a QC issue, just don't want to take the chance on buying Chinese made parts. It's Russian roulette with the Chinese made stuff moreso than North American made or European.


There is no one on this entire forum that must rely on their vehicles any more than anyone else. We all have to get to work.
Even if your ACVW is not your daily driver for work.......I could care less about missing a day at work....if the engine dies at 70 mph in the middle of 16 lanes of rush hour traffic....thats potential death I'm talking about.

None of that matters if you your VW craps in the middle of an industrial ghetto at midnight and your glock is at home because you don't have a carry license and your girlfriend is in the passenger seat. The car will be stripped...you might be dead...and she may be in the alley with someone on top of her.

So....I don't buy that "buy the best by name and country because I gotta have the ultimate in ....supposed....reputed....reliability" crap. There are few pistons around here anymore made anyplace aother than Brazil, Mexico or China...regardless of brand.
Most mahles are made in Brazil. I have seen absolute crap ...at times.....from all of these companies. In fact...through the 90's into the 00's...most VW versions of Kolbenschmidt pistons (Absolutely known to be better in most cases than Mahles)....were made in Brazil in TRW/Cofap facilities. These were superb.

It is about materials....and its about tolerance. If you are buying ANY brand of cylinders these days...and you do not at least clean, and fully inspect them ...bare minimum with feeler gauges and at best with a dial bore indicator and micrometer for piston skirts (and not a crappy slide caliper).....then you have no idea what you are putting in your engine so the country of origin does not matter whatsoever.
I have seen Mahle, Cofap, KS and an several other piston mfgs products that have come in with skirts out of spec and cylinders out of round or taper. I have aboslutely supposedly superb German parts...that crapped because of a manufacturing defect (distributor drive gear, maste cylinder and lifters). In this day and age....none of these manufacturers are as good as they were.

As for other comments.....I agree about rubber parts. Lots of issues with rubber compounding and prcoessing and the expense is just not worth the risk. Lots of plastic parts the same way. I ahve not seen enough good work out of China or Brazil to warrant spending the money.

But we are talking about pistons and cylinders here....not everything else. And...there HAS been enough testing and feedback to say that the Chinese pistons are quite worthwhile. For a street stocker.....I have seen no differences in performance or reliability in the sets and builds that I am watching.

I realize that I am primarily out of place here because I work mostly on type 4. Alot of my point of view is sheer availability. We have to look at the chinese pistons and cylinders. Actually...mostly the Chinese pistons because we rebore alot of cylinders. Ray


I'm not saying someone depends more on their car than another person, I also agreed with you about not ALL Chinese made parts being bad. What I stated is that there are those out there that prefer to spend the extra $$$ on something NOT MADE IN CHINA, because the risks of defects or QC problems are much lower buying parts made elsewhere. That fact you cannot deny, Chinese QC is spotty at best overall. I don't know one person who wants to tear their engine apart again because it cratered on them, "But I saved $300 by going cheap." No they didn't. They are going to spend more money on replacement parts, and use their own time or shop time to fix a situation that they could have avoided in the first place by going with a part manuacturer who has a better record of QC.

China will get there I have no doubt, they just aren't there now. Look at Japan in the 50's. Back then it was "Japanese Junk" and by the 80's some of the highest quality items were coming from Japan.

Lastly, you have the luxury, I assume, of not caring about missing work, I don't. If I can chose a manufacturer that has a higher consistency of holding up, that's where I am going to go vs. gambling on a part that might get me there, or it might not.



Then you have a whole host of parts to consider besides pistons and cylinders with that statement.... all things considered.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: A Reply with quote

I laugh at customers that knowingly go with a lesser brand to save 10%.

"Same quality only cheaper" is BS. If it was the same quality it'd be the same price.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the Mahles. With a rear main seal tax and shipping it was $165.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tundrawolf wrote:
I got the Mahles. With a rear main seal tax and shipping it was $165.


You have chosen wisely
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keifernet wrote:
19super73 wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
19super73 wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
didget69 wrote:
True Mahle Piston/Cylinder sets are quality items; the Chinese sets are best used as examples of what not to do...

bnc


Not always true at all. The Chinese parts are not examples of bad design...or bad manufacturing equipment or lack of know-how. In fact...most of the Chinese piston companie's manufacturing equipment is far newer and more advanced than virtually any other company that has been around for ages.

The issue is quality control. Some sets are excellent...some not. This has been getting much better. The AA company is not only willing to back their parts over the last year or so...they quickly make it right when your measurments find something wrong. Very good service.
I am watching a few people right now using their P&C sets having excellent results with them.
If you can find Mahles for your vehicle and the difference in price is slight...get them. Always buy the best you can.
But if you can't find what you need...don't be afraid to call these some of guys and tell them what you need.
My point is that it is 100% incorrect to say that all Chinese pistons are of less quality than anythingelse...just cause they are made in China. That is 100% not true. Ray


You do have a point but many people who rely on their vehicles or don't really want to go through the hassle of redoing a job because of a QC issue, just don't want to take the chance on buying Chinese made parts. It's Russian roulette with the Chinese made stuff moreso than North American made or European.


There is no one on this entire forum that must rely on their vehicles any more than anyone else. We all have to get to work.
Even if your ACVW is not your daily driver for work.......I could care less about missing a day at work....if the engine dies at 70 mph in the middle of 16 lanes of rush hour traffic....thats potential death I'm talking about.

None of that matters if you your VW craps in the middle of an industrial ghetto at midnight and your glock is at home because you don't have a carry license and your girlfriend is in the passenger seat. The car will be stripped...you might be dead...and she may be in the alley with someone on top of her.

So....I don't buy that "buy the best by name and country because I gotta have the ultimate in ....supposed....reputed....reliability" crap. There are few pistons around here anymore made anyplace aother than Brazil, Mexico or China...regardless of brand.
Most mahles are made in Brazil. I have seen absolute crap ...at times.....from all of these companies. In fact...through the 90's into the 00's...most VW versions of Kolbenschmidt pistons (Absolutely known to be better in most cases than Mahles)....were made in Brazil in TRW/Cofap facilities. These were superb.

It is about materials....and its about tolerance. If you are buying ANY brand of cylinders these days...and you do not at least clean, and fully inspect them ...bare minimum with feeler gauges and at best with a dial bore indicator and micrometer for piston skirts (and not a crappy slide caliper).....then you have no idea what you are putting in your engine so the country of origin does not matter whatsoever.
I have seen Mahle, Cofap, KS and an several other piston mfgs products that have come in with skirts out of spec and cylinders out of round or taper. I have aboslutely supposedly superb German parts...that crapped because of a manufacturing defect (distributor drive gear, maste cylinder and lifters). In this day and age....none of these manufacturers are as good as they were.

As for other comments.....I agree about rubber parts. Lots of issues with rubber compounding and prcoessing and the expense is just not worth the risk. Lots of plastic parts the same way. I ahve not seen enough good work out of China or Brazil to warrant spending the money.

But we are talking about pistons and cylinders here....not everything else. And...there HAS been enough testing and feedback to say that the Chinese pistons are quite worthwhile. For a street stocker.....I have seen no differences in performance or reliability in the sets and builds that I am watching.

I realize that I am primarily out of place here because I work mostly on type 4. Alot of my point of view is sheer availability. We have to look at the chinese pistons and cylinders. Actually...mostly the Chinese pistons because we rebore alot of cylinders. Ray


I'm not saying someone depends more on their car than another person, I also agreed with you about not ALL Chinese made parts being bad. What I stated is that there are those out there that prefer to spend the extra $$$ on something NOT MADE IN CHINA, because the risks of defects or QC problems are much lower buying parts made elsewhere. That fact you cannot deny, Chinese QC is spotty at best overall. I don't know one person who wants to tear their engine apart again because it cratered on them, "But I saved $300 by going cheap." No they didn't. They are going to spend more money on replacement parts, and use their own time or shop time to fix a situation that they could have avoided in the first place by going with a part manuacturer who has a better record of QC.

China will get there I have no doubt, they just aren't there now. Look at Japan in the 50's. Back then it was "Japanese Junk" and by the 80's some of the highest quality items were coming from Japan.

Lastly, you have the luxury, I assume, of not caring about missing work, I don't. If I can chose a manufacturer that has a higher consistency of holding up, that's where I am going to go vs. gambling on a part that might get me there, or it might not.



Then you have a whole host of parts to consider besides pistons and cylinders with that statement.... all things considered.



Not at all. It can't afford to miss work any more than anyone else..... Its just that when the choice of "worries" is getting caught with your pants down in a bad, bad, bad place where you or your vehicle is in danger, or having sieze up or shut down in the middle of I-495 in DC....as compared to worrying about missing a day of work.....the issue of work does not even enter my head.
For the other two reasons alone....having the best parts you can get....is worth its weight in gold. Can't go to work if your vehicle is gone or you are dead.

My other point here has been missed. I used to not even glance at Brazilian parts, mexican parts ....and....for sure not Chinese parts....because for what my parts cost (about twice what type 1 does)....I can't afford the financial risk alone.

But from what I have seen over the last 10 years....with Kolbenschmidt unavailable at all, Mahle being made all over the planet, repco no longer making VW rebuild pistons, NPR no longer making VW rebuild pistons...and your only Choices being Brazilian Mahles and Cofaps...or Chinese and $$$ customs.....I have seen about as many quality issues across the board with Mahles and cofaps as anything with else.
There is nothing out there right now....that is worth buying on name or country of origen alone. Thats my whole point.

Also....there are no longer...from what I have seen...P&C sets....that you can just take out of the box on a weekend rebuild and clean with solvent, oil and install like it used to be. Every single set...no matter who makes them....should be cleaned, mic'd, checked for taper...before installing. If everyone would start doing that......you will find what others have started finding. The supposedly top quality piston sets from name brands are not really that much more consistent anymore...than what some of teh Chinese companies are pushing out now. Thats sad.
I really wish there was an american company making replacemnets for us. Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: What is the real difference? Mahle VS. Chinese Reply with quote

tundrawolf wrote:
Hello,


I have been looking for some piston/cylinder kits, and see that the Mahle kit is $30 more than the Chinese kit. How bad is the Chinese kit? I'd rather have something I can rely on. I just would like to know the opinions and especially the experiences with the Chinese units.


Ah yes experience lets seperate that from percieved notions about brand names and feelings of nationalism and sweeping generalizations bordering on racism towards foriegn countries, just which group of brown folks make the best parts???? Reading all the posts was a hoot thanks Very Happy

In the real world of a shop selling VW rebuilt engines I know of one that has been using the Chinese brand for over two years now with not one problem ........ Does this count for anything??? Now go back to arguing about driving around in the Ghetto and missing days of work Very Happy

Jim-
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welllllll....occasionally I miss a dqay of work just to drive around the ghetto....but thats a different story! Laughing Ray
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jbreddawg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: A Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
If it was the same quality it'd be the same price.


Now that's a statement worth repeating !!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: A Reply with quote

jbreddawg wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
If it was the same quality it'd be the same price.


Now that's a statement worth repeating !!


No thats a b.s. off the cuff drive by remark which does not take into account the different countries and what they pay their workers... Common sense is showing us that the Chinese are dumping their products on this country sometimes below cost... check the specs look at the quality, names mean little or nothing anymore
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm at the point of considering a set of AA's from Chico or a set of Mahle's from Central Texas Autohaus - (90.5)

What's your thoughts??

Are all Malhe's forged? Machined to appropriate specs? Or is that part of what this thread is debating - the quality control.

Thanks,
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've been working on a motor that's getting a set of Mahles, I can't say that they fit the greatest. The casting was off so that the piston overlapped the stud insert (aluminum case, which in it's self may be the problem). So I had to manually grind 'em to fit Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK here are my nonprofessional caliper results. And, yes, I used a "crappy slide micrometer" so take it for what it is worth. All measurements except for ring gap in MM.

"Pistons"=Piston diameter measured at the skirt. All pistons marked "85.45" so take it for what it is worth. I doubt my micrometer is more accurate than theirs.

Pistons
1. 85.46
2. 85.46
3. 85.46
4. 85.46

"Cylinders"=The reason for two measurements are from stud hole to stud hole. I used a telescoping gauge and my slide micrometer.

Cylinders
1. 85.50 85.50
2. 85.48 85.48
3. 85.50 85.50
4. 85.50 85.50

"Ring Gap"=First measurement, top ring, second measurement, second compression ring. In inches, sorry.

Ring gap
1. .013 .013
2. .012 .012
3. .011 .014
4. .012 .016

Cylinders look uniformly honed. The machine work certainly looks very good. I have never seen a German set, but I am actually happy, considering the specifications.

Numbers 1-4 are not cylinder position, but piston and cylinder as I marked them, as they were packaged inside the box. In other words, the first one I pulled out, I marked "1" on the cylinder, and also the piston they had placed inside the cylinder. The ring gap reflects Mahles Piston/Cylinder combination.

BTW He forgot to charge me or put the oil seal in the box, so the total of JUST the stock Mahle with shipping (And it arrived the next day) was $165.25, which includes California tax.

Oh, I forgot: Wrist pins.

1. 22.00 Dia Hard to turn with fingers in piston
2. 22.00 Dia Easy to turn with fingers in piston but not loose
3. 22.00 Dia As hard to turn as #1 with fingers in piston
4. 22.00 Dia Much harder than #2 or #1 to turn with fingers in piston

As scientific as that is.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, other than the casting sitting a bit off from the machining, I'd say the mahles a good P/C set. The engine ran great before we pulled it apart (only problem was better oil pressure outside than inside, if you know what I mean) Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone ever use Moresa P/C's ?...they are mexican, a friend got me a set I used in a backup motor....Moresa makes pistons for GM according to their website,they look to be good quality and measured out ok...just wondering if anyone knows how long they last...
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Tundra Wolf, for the measurements. I'll spare everyone's bandwidth, and forgo the quote feature. Those numbers look pretty good--I'd sure run those, and I appreciate the jolt of factual information in what is otherwise a pissing match.

I understand many of us have been burned by outsourcing, by cheap poorly-built parts, by the crumbling of the world around us, in all it's various forms...

But division and argument breeds more of the same. Leave it alone. You both (and you know who you are) have valid points. I suggest you follow Mr. Wolf's example and measure what you buy, assemble properly, and drive happy.
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