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golde60 Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2008 Posts: 10 Location: Aussie living in Dubai
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearin |
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Glenn wrote: |
This is the centering ring and the late model sleeve. They do not work together.
Any questions? |
Yes - the centering ring? this comes as part of the plate or the throwout bearing?
It comes attached? |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31378 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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The centering ring is part of the clutch pressure plate. If you have the 71 & later type of throwout bearing, remove this from the pressure plate. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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krisbeetle Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005 Posts: 779
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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hpw wrote: |
wompninja wrote: |
Any tricks for putting on the centering ring? |
Or how to take it off? I see all the posts advising to remove the centering
ring, but not on HOW to do it. Do I need to remove the clutch from the
engine to remove the centering ring? I don't want to screw something
up never having done this before.
[img][/img]
Also I have the late style tranny with the collar, so I assume that this
collar (pictured) has to come off |
I also am having difficulty removing it any tricks for taking it off and putting it back on? |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31378 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, that's the collar that must be removed, I did that on the pressure plate I use. Use a flat screwdriver and pry up on those springs, one at a time, enough to get an edge of the collar loose, then do the next. Leave those springs intact. See photo.
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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IF that's the style centering ring he's got. On the later style ( seems much more common now) diaphragm type with a collar you have to cut/bend/pry the retainer clip off the plate to get the collar off those. |
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krisbeetle Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005 Posts: 779
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have the diaphragm type. What I am trying to do is take the centering ring from a junk pressure plate and put it on my good pressure plate.
so I need to remove it and essentially put it back on again without Damaging it.
I have been trying to remove but it just seems like something is gonna break.
is it even possible to put it back on again? or is it only meant to come out? |
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corradolvr Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008 Posts: 297 Location: WA
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devesvws Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004 Posts: 1540 Location: madison va
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amikehoover Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2011 Posts: 3 Location: ALVA, OK
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: Clutch and Throwout bearing. |
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I have the early throwout bearing on my car that I bought new. The engine I purchased for my '69 bug already had the clutch installed.
It is a sachs clutch. alot differnt style then either of these two pictured in the first post. Will my throwout bearing work with this clutch cover?
I have installed the engine and have adjusted on the clutch cable but not sure how far to turn the nut. As I have someone else push in on the clutch I can see the lever move from the very start. clutch wont disengage the pressure plate. do I need to keep tightening up the cable? Thanks for any help you can give me. [url] http://cgi.ebay.com/Volkswagen-beetle-ghia-type-2-...e5cd[/url]
This ebay auction has the same cover like I have |
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amikehoover Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2011 Posts: 3 Location: ALVA, OK
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: Last post |
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sorry I ddin't go all the way to the last page of posts. That clutch plate above is the exact same one I have in my car. I put in the early throwout bearing. But I cann't get the clutch to engage to put the car into gear. Do I just not have my clutch cable adjusted tight enough? I know that the engine and clutch were brand new when i bought it. |
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Need4Speed77 Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 61 Location: usa
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Someone earlier asked if there were any tips on installing the clips on an early t/o bearing and I have the same question. Can't seem to get the damn things on. Thanks |
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idan73633 Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2011 Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I have a question that I can't find the answer to, concerning my brother-in-law's project vehicle...
He has a sand rail with the "old style" transaxle (no centering collar in the TO bearing) and is trying to mate it to an engine with a "new style" diaphragm clutch (without the centering ring).
My question is this:
Can he buy an "old style" clutch kit and connect it to the "new" flywheel? are they interchangeable?
Thanks in advance! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31378 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:59 am Post subject: |
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idan73633 wrote: |
I have a question that I can't find the answer to, concerning my brother-in-law's project vehicle...
He has a sand rail with the "old style" transaxle (no centering collar in the TO bearing) and is trying to mate it to an engine with a "new style" diaphragm clutch (without the centering ring).
My question is this:
Can he buy an "old style" clutch kit and connect it to the "new" flywheel? are they interchangeable?
Thanks in advance! |
Yes. If the tranaxle is 1967-70 (or earlier and ground out for 200mm flywheel and 12 volt starter). It sounds like that engine without the center ring was used before with a 1971 and up transaxle, so should be 200mm, and will work with 1967-1970 with the center ring pressure plate. The flywheels are the same. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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idan73633 Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2011 Posts: 2
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Cusser wrote: |
idan73633 wrote: |
I have a question that I can't find the answer to, concerning my brother-in-law's project vehicle...
He has a sand rail with the "old style" transaxle (no centering collar in the TO bearing) and is trying to mate it to an engine with a "new style" diaphragm clutch (without the centering ring).
My question is this:
Can he buy an "old style" clutch kit and connect it to the "new" flywheel? are they interchangeable?
Thanks in advance! |
Yes. If the tranaxle is 1967-70 (or earlier and ground out for 200mm flywheel and 12 volt starter). It sounds like that engine without the center ring was used before with a 1971 and up transaxle, so should be 200mm, and will work with 1967-1970 with the center ring pressure plate. The flywheels are the same. |
Awesome! Thanks! |
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will park Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2010 Posts: 3 Location: Sun Valley ca
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: pressure plate |
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does in matter if the pressure plates are different i switched motors and the clutch stays down now? |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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After 7 pages I suppose the message gets diluted?
(1) The transmission input shaft having a sleeve (or not) will dictate which throwout (release) bearing you need to match your transmission.
With a sleeve = later style throwout bearing
Without a sleeve = earlier style throwout bearing
(2) The throwout bearing release arm must match the bearing or you cannot properly control the throwout bearing.
(3) The throwout bearing will dictate the type of pressure plate to install on the flywheel.
Late style without ring
Early styles with ring
If your pressure plate came with a centering ring (early style), you may be able to remove it and use the pressure plate with a later throwout bearing (seems to work with all diaphragm type pressure plates).
I would NOT expect an ORIGINAL '68 pressure plate to have a removable/convertible centering ring and still work with the later style throwout bearing since the later style clutch system didn't yet exist at that time.
And I doubt ALL centering rings are interchangeable amongst ALL pressure plates. You can see above that the 3-finger pressure plate has a different ring than the diaphragm type.
Having said all that... I've just gone through the entire thread and noticed no one posted a pic of the input shaft seal conversion kit that allows earlier transmissions to use the later style throwout bearings:
In the upper right is the special input shaft seal with an integrated sleeve. You also need the newer style release arm (in the kit) to work with the newer style throwout bearing (also included). The only custom part in this kit is the sleeve/seal. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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larryvance66 Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2009 Posts: 731 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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PK, I just read the entire thread and never found out the secret of the Bowden Tube. (Maybe I missed it ) What is the purpose of the Bowden Tube? What are the stmptoms that you need to adjust/replace it? And how do you adjust it? _________________ I got a Volkswagen for my wife....Best trade I ever made! |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Rather than add to this thread which is specifically about the difference between the early and late clutch parts... give these sites a read for details on the bowden tube:
http://www.vw-resource.com/bowden_tube.html
http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqbwdn.htm _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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oldvolkz Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 321 Location: Hollister, Califaztlan
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: |
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ashman40 wrote: |
After 7 pages I suppose the message gets diluted?
(1) The transmission input shaft having a sleeve (or not) will dictate which throwout (release) bearing you need to match your transmission.
With a sleeve = later style throwout bearing
Without a sleeve = earlier style throwout bearing
(2) The throwout bearing release arm must match the bearing or you cannot properly control the throwout bearing.
(3) The throwout bearing will dictate the type of pressure plate to install on the flywheel.
Late style without ring
Early styles with ring
If your pressure plate came with a centering ring (early style), you may be able to remove it and use the pressure plate with a later throwout bearing (seems to work with all diaphragm type pressure plates).
I would NOT expect an ORIGINAL '68 pressure plate to have a removable/convertible centering ring and still work with the later style throwout bearing since the later style clutch system didn't yet exist at that time.
And I doubt ALL centering rings are interchangeable amongst ALL pressure plates. You can see above that the 3-finger pressure plate has a different ring than the diaphragm type.
Having said all that... I've just gone through the entire thread and noticed no one posted a pic of the input shaft seal conversion kit that allows earlier transmissions to use the later style throwout bearings:
In the upper right is the special input shaft seal with an integrated sleeve. You also need the newer style release arm (in the kit) to work with the newer style throwout bearing (also included). The only custom part in this kit is the sleeve/seal. |
where would you get a Sleeve/seal for this kit? _________________ "if you want peace, you must work for justice" |
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mnussbau Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 4589 Location: Central Maryland
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