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Gas pedal travel question
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OutlawAlice
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Gas pedal travel question Reply with quote

i'm thinking about installing a roller pedal and was browsing forums and photos but noticed something.

How much distance should there be when pressing the gas pedal down from 0 to floored?

I have about 1.5 inches.

My pedal lays down somewhat and in the photos I see, it looks like the gas pedal is more upright.

I did recently have a problem with the little roller falling off the peg, but I fixed that with a new e-clip. I'm still having a problem with my throttle sticking a tiny bit.

Could there be something about to fall apart on me?

I can post pics tomorrow if needed. Thank ya!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a roller pedal in my bug and i love it!!! i get like 2-4" travel. You just got to make sure not to over-rev the motor to the point of no return! All u feel is that smooth roll under ur feet. then u got to pay attention to ur speedo!
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drscope
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do decide to go to a roller, make sure you keep all the old parts that you take off because you might want to put them back on!

Depending on your driving style, a roller pedal can be a pain!

It is sometimes very difficult to heel and toe with a roller and that makes it difficult to match rpm's with wheel speed.

Some folks like them and others just can't get used to it.

I have a roller in my 55 and as soon as I could I bought a cruizer pedal. That really made it nice to drive.

Wolfsburg West has all the parts to rebuild your factory pedal to make it work like new. If your pedal is sticking, you might want to check them out
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111721615

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111721507B

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=311721509

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111721647AGR
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OutlawAlice
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured the pedal and parts were wearing out and this would be a good time to try out a roller pedal. I've been reading the pros and cons, but the only way I can decide is to try it myself! Very Happy

drscope, is the cruizer pedal different from the stock?

I like to know all my options! Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have about 1.5 inches

While setting up the geometry for some dual carbs I measured the cable travel for a roller 'pedal'. It was 1" from 'idle' to 'floored'. Redrilling the hole in the 'pedal' for the cable higher can get more travel.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

runamoc wrote:
Quote:
I have about 1.5 inches

While setting up the geometry for some dual carbs I measured the cable travel for a roller 'pedal'. It was 1" from 'idle' to 'floored'. Redrilling the hole in the 'pedal' for the cable higher can get more travel.


I have done the same thing. Was unable to achieve WOT and proper idle due to the limited travel. Moving the cable hole closer to the roller fixed the travel issue.
I have noticed that it made the throttle much more touchy. This can be very annoying with a lowered/narrowed/rough riding front beam. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAYHEM wrote:
runamoc wrote:
Quote:
I have about 1.5 inches

While setting up the geometry for some dual carbs I measured the cable travel for a roller 'pedal'. It was 1" from 'idle' to 'floored'. Redrilling the hole in the 'pedal' for the cable higher can get more travel.


I have done the same thing. Was unable to achieve WOT and proper idle due to the limited travel. Moving the cable hole closer to the roller fixed the travel issue.
I have noticed that it made the throttle much more touchy. This can be very annoying with a lowered/narrowed/rough riding front beam. Evil or Very Mad


Where about did you drill the hole? I'm about to install one of these as a temporary fix because I don't have the plate for a normal gas pedal welded to my pan.

While I'm askinq questions, does anyone know what size bolts hold the pedal cluster to the body? I have 8mm and 10mm bolts and they both seemed respectively too small and too big. The obvious conclusion is 9mm, but the local hardware store didn't have any in this size. Before I go scouring the earth for rare 9mm bolts, can anyone confirm that this is the right size? Likewise, does anyone know the ideal length for these bolts?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alice, the cruzer pedal was an option in the oval window days. A lot of people didn't like the roller pedal I guess and so they came up with the cruzer pedal.

To install it on a roller pedal car, you simply removed the rear bolt that holds the pedal assembly to the tunnel and bolted the cruzer pedal there with a longer bolt.

It was a flat pedal that rested on the roller. So when you pushed the cruizer pedal, the roller rolled on the bottom of it as the throttle was opened.

To me, this makes them a lot easier to drive! The roller is neat because it's different, but it dosn't work well for everyone.

I'm not sure if a cruizer pedal would work with an after market roller pedal. Most of the after market roller pedals I've seen are different dimensions from the stock roller pedal.
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bill may
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10MM is factory for pedal cluster to tunnel.17MMhead/wrench size
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lazy old sun wrote:
Where about did you drill the hole? I'm about to install one of these as a temporary fix because I don't have the plate for a normal gas pedal welded to my pan.


In my situation, dual 44's with hexbar linkage, I ended up going about halfway (or maybe more) up from the original hole to the roller (aftermarket billet). I bent the cable tube, at the pedals, up a little to ease the transition.
Your situation may require less. Hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beware of the crappy EMPI rollers. The old ones (70s-80s) had a better range of operation, while the new ones do not give enough travel due to the "stop" or limit tab being in the wrong place. Every empi roller that my friends have installed in the last 10 years had to grind the stop to get the appropriate amount of travel.

If using a HD braided throttle cable (highly recommended!) you may have to trim the tube and change the angle like mentioned earlier.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

derluftwagen wrote:
Beware of the crappy EMPI rollers. The old ones (70s-80s) had a better range of operation, while the new ones do not give enough travel due to the "stop" or limit tab being in the wrong place. Every empi roller that my friends have installed in the last 10 years had to grind the stop to get the appropriate amount of travel.

If using a HD braided throttle cable (highly recommended!) you may have to trim the tube and change the angle like mentioned earlier.


I've seen many a post about the newer aftermarket roller pedals being a PIA.

I was looking on J Bug's site and they have one, but I don't remember if it was EMPI or another one. I may keep an eye on the classifieds.

I've got a few things to work on in the bug tomorrow. I'll take a pic or two of the pedal assembly to get ya'll to look and make sure it is assembled correctly and if there's anything I can do to make the operation better.

I squirted some WD-40 on the base of the asembly and on the little roller, and then on the awful throttle cable setup on my 28-pict this morning. It didn't stick a bit for the rest of the day.

I'm going to get a roller pedal as soon as I find a quality one and try that, and if that's still dodgy, I'll hunt down a cruizer pedal. If I'm still not happy, I'll order a new stock pedal setup from WWest. For the low cost of all the parts, I see nothing wrong with getting them and keeping them on hand.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a handful of pics I took...let me know if there's something I need to address!

Note: I know that I should have the "Z" end cable, but i went thru 3 because two broke and one woudn't stay in the lever. I figured the "O" end with a free spinning bolt and lock nut would be more secure.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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OutlawAlice
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello??

Anybody out there?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like it would work, I guess. I'd bend the cable end so it points toward the tube, otherwise that cable ain't gonna last long....
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all the previous talk about pedal travel and aftermarket rollers and cruiser pedals - I kind of stopped reading this thread, so that's why I didn't check in when it was updated the other day. But I just thought I'd look again...

And I don't know exactly what I'm seeing there.

That's the mid-66/later style pedal with the factory intermediate roller. Which was usually much better than the old style z-bar setup. (that's sort of VW's factory "cruiser pedal" setup)

Then I notice that your brake pedal is the older style with the old style return spring and clip. That should not be present with that style of accelerator pedal/roller. Something odd is going on here. Someone got creative and mix/matches some parts maybe?

Anyway, looks like your bracket for that roller is twisted or something - I don't think any type of accelerator cable is going to hold up at that angle.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roller looks bent to me. dont know if this helps but here a shot that may help you.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I last posted...today, mind you...my cable broke. Shocked

Ya'll are supposed to be psychic and tell me these things sooner! Laughing

I'm not surprised the pedal assembly is a mish mash of parts. I imagine that's it fine as long as I figure out the roller assembly?

Do I need to twist the assembly so that the cable has a smoother line back into the tube?

BTW - my 30-PICT-1 will be here by this weekend and I can ditch that horrid return spring setup on my 28-pict. There is still too much tension on the throttle cable.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bummer on the busted cable, but not unexpected.

You have to do something to get your cable in line with that bracket.

By the way, the old style carburetor return spring was supposed to be used with the solid-wire cable. It was when they went to the intermediate-roller pedal cluster in mid-66 that they also went to the stranded-wire accel cable with the S-shaped end at the pedals.

FYI - here is a picture of my 62's accel cable - this is how the eyelet-style solid-wire cable looks like when lined up properly with the intermediate bracket (which connects to the pedal with the "z-bar" instead of a roller like yours has)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I got the car - it had the twisted wire cable with the Z end that didn't stay in and was too short. I got the solid wire cable with the eye ring from JBugs and that was what I had.

The one I just finished installing looks like what you have there. It still isn't fully in line like yours, but it is very close.

I showed hubby what you said and the pic crowe66 posted and he got two vise grips and was able to straighten the assembly somewhat. He could have done better if we took the pedal assembly out, but it will last till this weekend when I get my carb and can pull it all aprat and get it right.

I did find, however, that the tube that goes thru the doghouse had pulled out slightly and had kinked the cable a hair. I re-fed the cable and was able to get the tube lined up better past the rear seal so nothing interferes with the cable.

I drove around teh block and not only do I have more pedal travel, but it is much smoother.

There is still a good deal of tension on the cable thanks to the return spring, but that will be corrected this weekend with the better spring setup on teh 30pict1.

I also ordered 2 more throttle cables, a clutch cable and a fan belt. Very Happy

Now that I'm frozen, worn the heck out but satisfied that I changed the throttle cable, fixed a problem with the cable tube and had hubby straighten the pedal assembly...I'm really glad I started this post. I didn't realize what a problem I had!

Thanks so much!
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A couple of mini-bikes
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