Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Stumbling Acceleration
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
msimm43
Samba Member


Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 41
Location: SF, CA
msimm43 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject: Stumbling Acceleration Reply with quote

I have a 72 Super that I recently bought. It runs pretty well, but it stumbles or bogs down when you hit the gas. If I come off the gas and get back on it recovers and then runs strong. It does it when the car is cold, and when the car is warm.

Here is cast of character:

Distributor: EMPI 009
Carb: stock
Fuel pump: stock
Air Filter: Not sure of the type but see the picture

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The idle, dwell, and timing are all within spec.

I just bought a Compu Fire VW 1 ignition module that is not in yet. I know that once the module goes in it will change the whole equation, but...

Do you think the Compu Fire will help (I am hoping to avoid the debate about the value of replacing points)? Since the idle, dwell, and timing are right on, could this be a jet problem?

Does anybody have any advice on getting rid of the stumble, or any leads on the correct questions that I should be asking to track down the problem?

Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
booch
Samba Member


Joined: July 03, 2008
Posts: 756
Location: Ambler, Pennsylvania
booch is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Stumbling Acceleration Reply with quote

msimm43 wrote:
Does anybody have any advice on getting rid of the stumble, or any leads on the correct questions that I should be asking to track down the problem?

Get rid of the 009 and get a vacuum advance distributor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
doc1369
Samba Member


Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 3100
Location: Las Vegas, NV, again
doc1369 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also make sure your accelerator pump is operating properly. It's adjustable and easy to fix, mine HAD the same problem. Do a saerch on hesitation for the topic with the writeup on how to adjust it.
_________________
Fatchicks: Daily drivers, donor cars, collectibles. What can't they do?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
68IHscout Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: March 10, 2010
Posts: 2386
Location: santa ana ca
68IHscout is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same problem , got a svda vacuum advance distributor got rid of the 009 and has not had any hessitation actually I get better gas millage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
msimm43
Samba Member


Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 41
Location: SF, CA
msimm43 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice.

I was not sure what to search for in the forum, but "hesitation" seems to have been the right word. It sounds like I am not the first one to come across this problem.

Thanks again for all of the input. It is a huge help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
uberautowerks
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2005
Posts: 1605
Location: Longmont Co
uberautowerks is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to confuse the issue a bit....

You can also tweak the carb to run better with the 009 and enjoy some extra power from the 009.

You need to give the engine a bit more fuel from the accelerator pump. There are several threads about how to do that.
_________________
--- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams -
---
'74 Thing (White)
'71 Single cab (White too)
'70 Weekender (White three)
'05 Evolution VIII (White also!!!)
'68 F-250 (White over black)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paul Windisch
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2009
Posts: 2258
Location: Fraser, Michigan
Paul Windisch is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not disagreeing just to disagree, but there is no extra power with a 009. A stock distributor advances farther (even just the mechanical portion), AND advances more quickly than a 009 does. A 009 only has 22 degrees of advance, period. Couple that with the vacuum advance portion and you get smooth acceleration, good power through the advance curve, AND better fuel economy at cruising speed, because at cruising speed the advance can be 38-40 degrees. Dumping extra fuel to overcome a hesitation is not economical to me. YES it can be done to get rid of the hesitation, but to me doesn't make any sense.
_________________
*ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*

1984 Mexican Beetle
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6 (the loser cruiser)

Heidebreicht Chevrolet
http://www.heidebreicht.com/HomePage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
uberautowerks
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2005
Posts: 1605
Location: Longmont Co
uberautowerks is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fine. And not trying to argue, just educate, but there is more to how a distributor works than how far it advances.

I DO get more power from a 009 then from a stock distributor. And it's not "dumping" fuel it's just a tiny bit more from a properly aimed discharge tube.

The same way I get more power from a set of headers AND a 135 main.

Does the fuel economy go down? Yes, yes it does. Because it takes more fuel to make more power. Thus my EVO VIII gets 19mpg (hwy) while my xB gets 39mpg.

Arrow ANYWAY... the relevance to the original poster it this... you can have a properly functioning engine WITHOUT buying more parts Exclamation
_________________
--- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams -
---
'74 Thing (White)
'71 Single cab (White too)
'70 Weekender (White three)
'05 Evolution VIII (White also!!!)
'68 F-250 (White over black)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paul Windisch
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2009
Posts: 2258
Location: Fraser, Michigan
Paul Windisch is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not trying to argue either, I fully understand how a distributor works, and you're right, there is more to a distributor than how far it advances, that is why I mentioned WHEN it advances farther, that is the most critical part. If his engine is stock, he will be happier with the correct distributor, that's all I'm saying. I ran a 009 for ten years, and just got fed up with trying to overcome hiccups. If it works for you, I am sincerely happy for you, and I really don't mean that in a sarcastic internet I-can't -tell-what-you-really-mean-because-this-is-typed kind of way. Peace.
_________________
*ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*

1984 Mexican Beetle
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6 (the loser cruiser)

Heidebreicht Chevrolet
http://www.heidebreicht.com/HomePage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
uberautowerks
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2005
Posts: 1605
Location: Longmont Co
uberautowerks is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries Paul. I make a habit of NOT getting bent over forum posts. Thanks for keeping it civil.
_________________
--- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams -
---
'74 Thing (White)
'71 Single cab (White too)
'70 Weekender (White three)
'05 Evolution VIII (White also!!!)
'68 F-250 (White over black)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
peecee69 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 655
Location: Buffalo, NY
peecee69 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might also want to consider rotating your alternator to the correct position. It's rotated 90 deg too much clockwise.

And move the fuel filter to outside the engine compartment...

ok, I'll stop there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paul Windisch
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2009
Posts: 2258
Location: Fraser, Michigan
Paul Windisch is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uberautowerks wrote:
No worries Paul. I make a habit of NOT getting bent over forum posts. Thanks for keeping it civil.


You too. If I'm going to get bent out of shape over something, it will be with my Wife, and it will be a subject ALOT more trivial than this one! Very Happy
_________________
*ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*

1984 Mexican Beetle
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6 (the loser cruiser)

Heidebreicht Chevrolet
http://www.heidebreicht.com/HomePage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
uberautowerks
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2005
Posts: 1605
Location: Longmont Co
uberautowerks is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct about the filter

peecee69 wrote:
You might also want to consider rotating your alternator to the correct position. It's rotated 90 deg too much clockwise.


Wrong about the generator (NOT an alternator). It's just fine where it is.
_________________
--- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams -
---
'74 Thing (White)
'71 Single cab (White too)
'70 Weekender (White three)
'05 Evolution VIII (White also!!!)
'68 F-250 (White over black)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
peecee69 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 655
Location: Buffalo, NY
peecee69 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uberautowerks wrote:
Correct about the filter

peecee69 wrote:
You might also want to consider rotating your alternator to the correct position. It's rotated 90 deg too much clockwise.


Wrong about the generator (NOT an alternator). It's just fine where it is.


Missed that about it being a generator. Should have realized that. D'oh! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
doc1369
Samba Member


Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 3100
Location: Las Vegas, NV, again
doc1369 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run a 34 carb and a 009 distributor on a 1600 DP. After adjusting my accelerator pump I have zero driving problems. My fuel economy acually improved. As for power, couldnt tell you. I don't race my bug, him and I like to take our time. Laughing I live on a micro budget so I'm not looking to replace whats not broke. Now if it did break I've seen enough people on this site to give the other distributor a try.
_________________
Fatchicks: Daily drivers, donor cars, collectibles. What can't they do?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
msimm43
Samba Member


Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 41
Location: SF, CA
msimm43 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, Thanks for the input.

I spent some time (with someone who has a much longer history with VW maintenance then I do) adjusting the setup and the the fuel pump. With no luck.

In the searching I have done on the forum I have seen the fuel filter location come up before. I am not sure what the problem is exactly with the location (I am assuming it is fire related), but I will search around and get it figured out.

In terms of purchasing a SVDA distributor. I have seen a lot of people pointing towards Aircooled.net. They sound like a good place to purchase from. Quality parts, and good service from what I can tell. Does that sound right?

Thanks again for all the help, and I will try and keep the my "new member" questions to a minimum from now on Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
doc1369
Samba Member


Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 3100
Location: Las Vegas, NV, again
doc1369 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fuel filter being out of the engine bay it a fire hazzard. Can't tell you why because I've spent 25 years with a fuel filter next to my engine on a motorcycle, not to mention all the other cycle riders out there. But I'm sure theres a good reason out there.
_________________
Fatchicks: Daily drivers, donor cars, collectibles. What can't they do?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
candymustang65
Banned


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 1678
Location: APPLE VALLEY
candymustang65 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Im with Uber on this 009 thing < Age Old argument come's down to run what ya Brung !
As to fuel filter location < Might be part of the Hesitation .
I runn fuel filter between the pump and Carb !
Yes it is a fire hazard or can be !
But a motor that hesitate's and jerk's is soon runnin like crappola missin fouled plugs etc.
Ok reason I runn the fuel pump between Carb and Pump is too monitor fuel pump pressure .
Often when adjusting the carb it will be un responsive to adjustment's .
On a carb that is in fairly good condition this is more often than naught directly due to excessive fuel pump pressure .
Excessive fuel pump pressure will over ride the inlett need jett valve causeing a fatt or flooded condition .
Thus Carb adjustments will be unresponsive not to mention the throttle pump adjustment .
Stock fuel pump's often fluctuate in fuel pump pressure due to outside temp's even timming can affect fuel pump pressure .
Only 1 type of filter should ever be used between the Pump and Carb and it is the plastic Tear Drop type in the pic !
It should not rubb or bounce and should be located as far away from coil and dizzy as possible < Not Easy ?
I like to see my fuel filter about 1/2 too 2/3rds full on a cold morning but by afternoon if it warm's up over 90 DEg. I wanna see it at a 1/2 to a 1/4 full .
A consistent 1/3rds full during the summer is perfect for a stock carb .
No more than 2/3rds or you will usually experience Hesitation on take off and in the most severe case actuall dieing at red light's .
Or Drop in the Idle at Red Light's .
Fuel Pump pressure can be adjusted by adding 1 or more gaskets under the fuel pump .
After your straight on Fuel pump pressure < Adjust Carb and Re- Check timming !
Carb should be responsive to adjustment's .
An Inccorect Throttle pump adjustment will also cause Hesitation .
The Hesitation they refer to regarding the 009 Dizzy in my experience can be All or Mostly tuned out .
Tweeking a stock carb will increase response with 009 .
As to more power ?
To many variable's to the eqausion ?
Camm / CCR / Head Configuration / Timming / Type of Point's used / etc/ etc.!
Wich bring's us to Point's !
I prefer the Tiger tail points in a 009 .
Sean
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
doc1369
Samba Member


Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 3100
Location: Las Vegas, NV, again
doc1369 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Sean, I'll bite on this one. What does the fuel filter in the engine conpartment have to do with fuel preasure? What does the level in the filter have to do with hesitation? Other than how easy it is to inspect, Why does the filter have to be clear? I'll give ya the fire hazard but your asking for a bit much with that explanation. Very Happy
_________________
Fatchicks: Daily drivers, donor cars, collectibles. What can't they do?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB