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dfw_ie Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2007 Posts: 10
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:03 pm Post subject: Crankshaft cam gear and Distributor alignment |
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I am building a 1641 Dual port. I have installed the distributor drive with the offset perpendicular to the case parting line. The offset is toward the flywheel. The case half is oriented with the main bearing bolts facing up. My question:
Once i set the distributor and tighten it- offset toward flywheel and slot perpendicular to the case parting line. When i install the crankshaft should the timing dots on the cam gear be pointed towards the 3'oclock (down if the case was upright) or 12o'clock with the case oriented with the main bearing bolts up.
thanks. the wilson book is kinda confusing to me. |
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candymustang65 Banned
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 1674 Location: APPLE VALLEY
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Set Dizzy drive with the distributor ( Slash mark on Distrib edge pointed at #1 Posistion )
#1 posistion is the fuel pump stud closest to the edge of the motor .
Turn rotor to #1 posistion with slash mark on distributor edge also pointed at nuber one .
Snugg distrib clamp .
Set crank in case #1 rod at it's furthest travel ( TDC #1 ) .
Sett bearing's by gently aligning and pushing up against the spring on the distributor by lifting or pushing up on dizzy drive < will sett right in if bearing's are lined up with dowell pinn's ( Lil jiggle of rotor back and forth keeping the rotor pointed at #1 posistion .
All the while keeping the #1 rod at it's farthest lenght of travel
Once crank and distrib drive gears mesh crank seat's the bearing's on there dowell pinn < all the way down check that when rotor is pointing #1 posistion that the #1 rod is at it's farthest lenght of travel ( TDC #1 )
Rotate crank shaft to see crank gear dot .
Set cam gear on the dot in dot roll gear for gear down intoo the cam shaft journal's .
Rotate crank and observe the crank gear and cam gear dot's line up .
NOTE :Pushing up on Distributor drive against the small spring on end of the distributor is what meshes the crank and camm gear allowing the crank bearing's to set down on there dowell pinns all the way .
2nd NOTE : twisting back and forth on the distributor rotor will move the crank back and forth in it's thrust travel .
moving the crank to fly wheel end, of the case via twisting the rotor then slightly forward will mimic a thrust setting and is where you should take your camm back lash read and camm thrust read .
If you rotate the crank shaft by cranking on the rod's and camm lift's up then your cam gear is to positive .
If you do not use a stock camm then you will most likely get a zereo pitch radiuse cam .
Stock cam gear's are stamped 0 or -1 or -2 up to -7 or more positive over the 0 gear would be +1 or +2 and up to +7 ( gear's not stamped are considerd 0 pitch radiuse .
Mild hi performance camm's need to be degreed in fact technically sold should stock camm's ?
but more critical when changeing camm's to aftermarket it's absolute .
If camm and crank are matched < as in together and your puttin um right back together and Pitch radiuse work's out .
You can in all probabuility slide on the degree- ing the camm .
( There gonna ream me on that one but it's true )
Best to degree it make sure !
Sean |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76948 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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dfw_ie wrote: |
thanks. the wilson book is kinda confusing to me. |
then don't read this.
candymustang65 wrote: |
Set Dizzy drive with the distributor ( Slash mark on Distrib edge pointed at #1 Posistion )
#1 posistion is the fuel pump stud closest to the edge of the motor .
Turn rotor to #1 posistion with slash mark on distributor edge also pointed at nuber one .
Snugg distrib clamp .
Set crank in case #1 rod at it's furthest travel ( TDC #1 ) .
Sett bearing's by gently aligning and pushing up against the spring on the distributor by lifting or pushing up on dizzy drive < will sett right in if bearing's are lined up with dowell pinn's ( Lil jiggle of rotor back and forth keeping the rotor pointed at #1 posistion .
All the while keeping the #1 rod at it's farthest lenght of travel
Once crank and distrib drive gears mesh crank seat's the bearing's on there dowell pinn < all the way down check that when rotor is pointing #1 posistion that the #1 rod is at it's farthest lenght of travel ( TDC #1 )
Rotate crank shaft to see crank gear dot .
Set cam gear on the dot in dot roll gear for gear down intoo the cam shaft journal's .
Rotate crank and observe the crank gear and cam gear dot's line up .
NOTE :Pushing up on Distributor drive against the small spring on end of the distributor is what meshes the crank and camm gear allowing the crank bearing's to set down on there dowell pinns all the way .
2nd NOTE : twisting back and forth on the distributor rotor will move the crank back and forth in it's thrust travel .
moving the crank to fly wheel end, of the case via twisting the rotor then slightly forward will mimic a thrust setting and is where you should take your camm back lash read and camm thrust read .
If you rotate the crank shaft by cranking on the rod's and camm lift's up then your cam gear is to positive .
If you do not use a stock camm then you will most likely get a zereo pitch radiuse cam .
Stock cam gear's are stamped 0 or -1 or -2 up to -7 or more positive over the 0 gear would be +1 or +2 and up to +7 ( gear's not stamped are considerd 0 pitch radiuse .
Mild hi performance camm's need to be degreed in fact technically sold should stock camm's ?
but more critical when changeing camm's to aftermarket it's absolute .
If camm and crank are matched < as in together and your puttin um right back together and Pitch radiuse work's out .
You can in all probabuility slide on the degree- ing the camm .
( There gonna ream me on that one but it's true )
Best to degree it make sure !
Sean |
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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dfw_ie Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2007 Posts: 10
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: Distributor shaft and cam gear |
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Sorry guys, i guess im a little dense. I wasn't able to understand the previous posts. If the distributor drive shaft is set- offset towards flywheel and slot perpendicular to case parting line (case half main bearing bolts facing up), how do i orient the crankshaft in the case?
Should the cam gear dots up, down, left or right? (when facing the pulley end of the case with the main bearing bolts facing up. any help is appreciated. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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I can shed a little light here.. hopefully this is not just "muddying the waters" more.
I'm assuming you have the case open and are installing the distributor, crank and then the cam.
First, this is what your distributor drive gear should look like (TDC for #1) before you install the distributor:
(Pic borrowed from Glenn's site)
I hope this is what you meant by
Quote: |
"distributor drive shaft is set- offset towards flywheel" |
I would actually say that the slot in the distributor drive gear if off-set towards the (rear) pulley.
With the distributor drive gear oriented correctly in the case, install the distributor so it engages the offset key of the drive gear. The rotor should now be pointing to #1 position (different positions for different distributors).
Rotate the distributor housing (NOT the rotor) so the small mark on the housing rim lines up with the tip of the rotor.
Lock down the distributor housing clamp. Now you can use the rotor alignment to the mark on the distributor housing as a reference to #1 TDC.
Now, rotate the left-half of the case in the engine stand so you can drop the crank into place. Hold the crank by the small ends of the #1 & #2 connecting rods with #1 being at its highest position (simulating #1 at TDC). Drop it into the case and engage the distributor drive gear. Check the the distributor rotor is still pointing to the mark and that the #1 connecting rod is fully extended (TDC). Make sure the crank/bearings are fully seated.
So now the distributor and crank are properly indexed for #1 TDC.
Now install the cam, making sure the dot on the cam gear and dots on the crank gear "mesh" like this (look closely at the dots):
Don't forget to install all the lifters in the left-side of the case first .
You may need to rotate the crank to confirm the dots line up. This is a key step so triple check the dots are oriented correctly.
I couldn't find ANY reference to how the cam/crank dots should be when #1 is at TDC, but this pic might help:
Notice that the #1 connecting rod is just about fully extended and you can see the dot on the cam gear is not "meshed" with the dots on the crank gear.
When you are DONE, rotate the entire distributor, crank & cam assembly so the distributor is pointed at the mark on the distributor body. If the cam is oriented correctly, the lobes of the cam for #1 & #3 cylinder will extend DOWN towards the #3 cylinder. When any cylinder is at TDC, the cam lobes for that cylinder should be furthest away from lifting the valves for that cylinder. Also, the connecting rod for #1 should be at its highest (TDC).
The above pics came from this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=296443
Give it a read...
Hope this helps... _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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candymustang65 Banned
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 1674 Location: APPLE VALLEY
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's .
I like to sett the Dizzy and Dizzy drive with clamp 1st off .
Then the crank and Camm .
Advantage's are many !
Lil push on the dizzy drive torwards the Distrib against the spring .
Crank gear and Drive gear mesh they set right down no guessin On dizzy drive posistion .
I did get a new camera think the cobb webb's took it over ?
Sean |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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dfw_ie Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2007 Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: Crankshaft cam gear and Distributor alignment |
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thanks Ashman that's exactly what i needed. Thanks to everyone else that posted. I appreciate all the help. Thanks. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15309 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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candymustang65 wrote: |
Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's . |
No it's because you have very poor writing skills, do not know how to form a coherent sentence and your spelling sucks. All your posts are very difficult to read. 98% of them I just skip. I'm not trying to be a dick just pointing out the facts. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5366 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
candymustang65 wrote: |
Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's . |
No it's because you have very poor writing skills, do not know how to form a coherent sentence and your spelling sucks. All your posts are very difficult to read. 98% of them I just skip. I'm not trying to be a dick just pointing out the facts. |
I have to agree. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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akskoot Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 150 Location: Alaska
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Joey wrote: |
vwracerdave wrote: |
candymustang65 wrote: |
Ok admittedly lil confuseing but only cause I dont post pic's . |
No it's because you have very poor writing skills, do not know how to form a coherent sentence and your spelling sucks. All your posts are very difficult to read. 98% of them I just skip. I'm not trying to be a dick just pointing out the facts. |
I have to agree. |
sorry, but I too have to quit after about the second line |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76948 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Easy guys... he's gonna get a complex. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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candymustang65 Banned
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 1674 Location: APPLE VALLEY
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh come on Man I actually Won a 8th grade Spelling Bee ?
As to coherent ?
Yeah I type short a lott guess I missed the Conjunction Junction Cartoon's as a Kidd ?
But it's not that badd yeeeeesh I type with a Big ole fatt finger I smashed flatt as paper in a West Texas oil feild .
Really fast with it too !
Guess wich finger it is ? Heh , Heh , Heh !
Or do you need Me to spell it out for you ?
Complex ?
Commin from a Grinch that's Hillarious !
Sean |
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sslick Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2005 Posts: 170
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:07 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft cam gear and Distributor alignment |
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dfw_ie wrote: |
I am building a 1641 Dual port. I have installed the distributor drive with the offset perpendicular to the case parting line. The offset is toward the flywheel. The case half is oriented with the main bearing bolts facing up. My question:
Once i set the distributor and tighten it- offset toward flywheel and slot perpendicular to the case parting line. When i install the crankshaft should the timing dots on the cam gear be pointed towards the 3'oclock (down if the case was upright) or 12o'clock with the case oriented with the main bearing bolts up.
thanks. the wilson book is kinda confusing to me. |
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was confused after trying to follow the Wilson book. This is exactly the thread I needed to find to set me straight on orientation of the dizzy, crank gears, and the two dots! The way I read the Wilson book is that at tdc for #1, the dizzy would point at the notch AND the two dots would be facing the case parting line facing the cam. I had my crank in and out probably 6 times and did a lot of swearing before I came across this. So, thank you! I can now move on with my build! |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: |
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This guy knows how to perform a search, way to go |
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sslick Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2005 Posts: 170
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
This guy knows how to perform a search, way to go |
Nah...just got lucky! I usually wind up more confused when I try searching for specifics. Once and a while tho...it pays off! |
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