synthetic oil

[RCKJNKE]

Is it a good idea to run full synthetic oil in a mid 80's vanagon?

[debbiej]

I can't answer, but I'd love to find out. my husband love synthetic. I have a gut feeling that regular oil is best for older vehicles. but he prevailed and we have used synthetic oil in our van for a couple of years. it has an 86 engine, the 2.1, and a standard tranny. no leaks (of oil) and the engine runs great.

[jackbombay]

Synthetic oil is always the best oil to use as far as engine wear is concerned, even with the longer drain intervals it is capable of it is still more expensive though.
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[PDXWesty]

I switched over several years ago and have had no problems with it. Seems to run smooth and quiet.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[whynotvw]

I just switched over to mobile one synthetic. I was using regular 20x50w oil before. I have a subaru 2.2 engine.(unknown mileage, did not change crank seals or other seals, and conversion done year and half ago.) Here is the weird thing that happened. When I switched over after about 200 miles, I noticed oil was leaking through my timing belt cover. It never leaked before with regular oil. When I called Vanaru who does subaru conversions about this problem, they told me sometimes that could happen because the synthetic cleans all the smudges or something like that. Well I took the timing cover off and it was leaking through the crank seal and oil pump seal. Good thing was my timing belt had all kinds of cracks in it so it turned out to be a good thing for me because the timing belt would've been gone. I ended up changing all the seals, idlers, and the timing belt.

I can notice the difference just slightly with the synthetic oil. Runs smoother.

[DAIZEE]

I use Mobile 1 synthetique 5W50 or 5W40 if I can't find the W50. It's expensive but came highly recommended by several sources for my engine.
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83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 97 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (for sale)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

Mental Health issues affect us all. Ignorance is not bliss. It's up to each of us to educate ourselves.

[dhaavers]

(assuming original engine...???)
Here we go...

Search "ZDDP" for another aspect of "older engine" oil requirements I had never heard of before Samba...

NUTSHELL:
As I understand it, older engines (ie: stock AC like yours or WBX like mine) benefit from higher levels of zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) than most "modern" off-the-shelf oils provide. ZDDP has slowly phased out over the years because newer "modern" engines would suffer cat. converter damage. (Actually, my CC may also suffer somewhat, but it's a tradeoff w/engine life...)

I've done the reading and settled on Brad Penn 20W-50 partial synthetic. It's a "racing" oil and has all the ZDDP needed to keep my old pancake happy for a long time. Costs a little more (~$5/quart) but it's easy to use. Consider:

Some Samba-istas concoct their own formulas w/concentrated ZDDP products added to conventional oil - cost is about the same as what I'm using but with the added benefit of more mess and monkeying around. I just open the bottle & dump it in - the thinking's already been done for me.

I'm sure there may be some full synthetics w/adequate ZDDP, but I just settled on Brad Penn & I'm happy. Good luck searching...

Happy Trails!
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86 White Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"

[campism]

[JPrato]

[thummmper]

long change interval full synthetic motor oil has always exceeded oe specs
you generate 90% less drain oil too. I have been running it since 94. the gear oil is overrated. manual trans oil needs to be mineral oil cause synthetic doesnt slow down the clusters enough for smooth shifting.
the things that make a long drain oil different is that it doesnt evaporate/thicken, and has a superior filter provided, which is replaced at 6 months or so. I change my oil every january, whether it needs it or not.
and I have pushed that to as long as 16 months.
mineral oil turns to dirty water at 240 degrees f. full synthetic oil holds viscosity to 600 degrees f. it swells seals and reduces leaks. It will also break loose all the crud thats stuck in your engine. there's a can of cleaner that you pretreat the old oil with to help eliminate the deposits.
an old trick is to dump a half quart of atf in and drive ONCE AROUND THE BLOCK, not to aunt mary's or laramie, wyoming. then you change the oil, and watch the junk come out.
brent weide got mad at me for laughing at him when he plugged his 2.5 with synthetic. he was badtalking it because his dad didnt show him how to do the atf thing when he was a kid. whatever.
Its the only oil jet engines can run on. far superior to 3000 mile oil.
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todd


www.losthorizons.com
89 tintop [below]
90 suby tintop


soon to be driving a smooth mid engined vanagon again
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vanagon-lhs/
http://www.ted.com/talks/garth_lenz_images_of_beauty_and_devastation.html

[vanjoe]

Check out Amsoils web site. They have a synthetic oil they claim is good for 25,000 miles. You do have to change the filter every 3,000 still. But they do the math a 3,000 mile interval for conventional oil compared to there product and it is cheaper to use Amsoil. I have not tried it yet but I am running a synthetic in my van. I use Amsoil in my personal water craft and love it compared to other brands I have used in the past.

[jackbombay]

[JPrato]

10K interval is cool. The oil analysis guys said the oil (or rather the additives) were starting to degrade under my driving conditions at 10k. I didn't feel like pushing it further.
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Joe

06 Subaru Legacy turbo (how am I gonna fit this sucker into the Westy....)
87 Syncro Tin Top project
84 Westy, 2.5L Subaru power
46 Cessna 140

[reluctantartist]

I got tired of hunting for mobile 15w50 and then having to special order STP 4cylinder engine treatment to bring the oil back up to spec as per LN Engineering http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html. So switched to Brad Penn partial synthetic; you can order it from Amazon with free shipping and it is a lot cheaper and better. I have an air-cooled so I am more aware of a hot engine, but from the posts on here about wbxr overheating partial full synthetic oil maybe good insurance since it handles heat better. Just don't forget your ZDDP additive. Autobarn has the STP 4 cylinder oil treatment, I could never find it at the FLAPS and they could not order it.
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1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[Zero419]

I think I am going to go with royal purple this time.
Next time I'll try ti think ahead and order that Brad Penn oil.
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1987 Westy Auto Bostig 2.0 Ztec

[thummmper]

costs 45.00 per year, 6 month oil filter change. 25000 mi per year with 2 filters. the W80/90 wasnt all that--94 to 2008 and the pumpkin got noisy.
this is in a toyota truck, 1992.
recently put synthetic in the 2,2 suby and she tapped a lifter for an hour
and quieted down again. the little cam seal seep it had is gone. I even went and bought another o-ring for it and never installed it. I'm still watching it. It was using oil at 160000 mi but the stick looks good.
monolec is better in the pumpkin, and that is from an old racer friend that was like smokey unick. This guy owned Phoenix Int'l. Raceway 20 years ago. monolec looks like raspberry syrup. Lubrication Engineers brand. he used it for racing. keep it out of the gearbox- its meant for dog shifters in drag racing. shiney
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todd


www.losthorizons.com
89 tintop [below]
90 suby tintop


soon to be driving a smooth mid engined vanagon again
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vanagon-lhs/
http://www.ted.com/talks/garth_lenz_images_of_beauty_and_devastation.html

[50 Kafer]

Good point. I know oil for small engine applications, lawn mowers and such still requires the zinc in it. Briggs & Stratton and Kohler still have it in their oil and comes in 30w and 10-30w.

[connorsvw2]

Haven't used the stuff as my Subie 2.5 does not have bucket tappets like my 85 GTI or my 1.8T Passat, but their products are typically very good:
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-zddp-oil-additive-4-oz.html

I understood the ZDDP helps prevent galling of bucket tappets in pre-89 engines.

[msinabottle]

I hope Everett understands that I chose to post here because the Vanagon engines are just a bit too far out, as I see it, for the Board-wide 'What Oil to Use' thread. I have tried to be good!

The last time I went to Wal-Mart, intending to pick up my favored Castrol GTX 20W50, I couldn't find it in the 5 quart size. Aggravating, but other Wal-Marts might have it. I've been putting 4 oz. Red Line Engine Break-In Additive in that to up the ZDDP levels for Winston's 1.9. Winston's been purring like a large orange kitten on his Castrol GTX dino oil.

A local radio show, a good one, that also is aware of the ZDDP problem for older engines has been recommending that those of us driving the older flat-tappet cam vehicles go to Mobil Delvac 15W40 diesel oil, saying that the additive package is good enough to keep the old mills going. Wal-Mart HAD that, and it was cheaper than the Castrol in the other weights.

Running Winston on a truly hot day, I've been glad that hard-working mill had 20W50 in it... But 15W40's not THAT far of a step down. Pace Everett, I checked all references to Delvac on the board--the Bay folks are using that oil in that weight, as are the diesel conversion people.

Thoughts, fellow Vanagonauts?

Best!
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'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[Robw_z]

I purchased Mobil 1 20W-50 at Wal Mart about a year ago... went back today for the yearly oil change, and they don't carry that weight anymore. One thing I've noticed about Mobil 1 oils, is that the variation in weights(0w-20, 10w-40, 10w-30 etc) isn't just differences in viscosity and expansion, but they all have different specs and ingredients and such as well. Just something to note.

So I'm not sure what to buy. My next choice would be the Mobil 1 10w-40, but not only is it a different weight than the 20w-50 but it has different specs and ratings as well.

Something about ZDDP... somebody mentioned that is a concern for pre '89 engines. Since I have a 1990, it'd be nice if I was exempt from this concern, but it doesn't make sense to me that in 1990 VW would have changed the Wasserboxer metal make-up to meet a new standard. That'd be great if they did, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was no difference between my '90 2.1 and an '86 2.1... any thoughts on this?

-Rob