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Alternative heater options
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partonkevin
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the ceramic electric heater and all it did was to inefficiently move a little warm air. Not really heat. I guess the gas heater is really great. I've never had one, but I would LOVE one in my beetle. The oil cooler heater thingy is real. You basically take an external oil cooler like you would use for a baja and mount it in the car. I had a friend that did this. He kept it mounted above the decklid attached to those vents right under the rear window in the summer. In the winter he re-routed the hoses through a couple of holes and mounted the cooler, now a heater, right behind the back seat. I've used one of those catalytic propane heaters. It did okay in moderate weather. It burns at a lower temperature somehow and doesn't make as much heat as older style heaters, but it's supposed to be safer. for a couple of years I used a little heater that screwed on top of a propane bottle. I tied it upright using some screws under the dash and kept it on the passenger side floor. It worked pretty good, but I have plenty of ventilation in my bug! I always wanted a Mr. Buddy style heater. i even thought about strapping a milk crate in the back seat to hold a big propane tank.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Then Wolfgangdieter chimes in with, what I assume was a smart ass remark about putting an external oil cooler with a fan in the back seat and it would deliver 200 degs of heat.
It took me a while but what if Wolfs comment wasn't just a smart ass remark but a stroke of genius.


This was a bad idea in the 60's and is still for a variety of reasons. Basically the oil rarely gets hot enough in the winter to make an effective fluid that needs to be cooled. If you do a search here, you will find plenty of reasons not to do it.

My suggestion would be to make sure the doors, windowws and hood seals up nice and tight to prevent what heat you have from escaping. Nothing wrong with wearing gloves and a coat. My 59 bus had nothing and I wore "moon boots" and my girlfriend rode around in an Eddie Bauer sleeping bag to stay warm in the midwest. We lived through it.

Stock heat well set up and sealed tightly will indeed roast a pig in the front seat when everything works as it should.

A gas heater is also a suitable means if you live someplace cold enough to warrant it..

Other sources of "heat" like ceramic heaters, and propane all have issues be it how many watts the engine can spare and how much CO you can breathe and still live through it..
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean to offend anyone, so please don't take it personally, but why does everyone try to re-invent the heater in these cars? The only beneficial mod is to make them blow hot air when you are idling. Or in REALLY cold climates, perhaps a gas heater designed for a Beetle. The parts to make the stock heater work are relitively inexpensive. I just got a set of good used Dansk heat exchangers for $30. Get the stock heater working properly and you will be happy. Considering the pulse width modulated computer controlled blower motor for my Cadillac is $300, putting a Beetle heater together (with the exception of the heater channels) is pretty cheap. Again, no offense intended. If the heater core in my other cars were to take a crap, I would fix the heater core, not add all kinds of other heaters to keep warm. Wink
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just so you know, I did read the entire thread and I know you are running a header system, but you can get heat exchangers with larger diameter tubes in them that still produce decent heat. You may have to get the correct flanges welded on them to work with the header, but it can be done.
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lupin..the..3rd
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you do with the oil cooler in the summer time? It'll turn the inside of the car into an oven, just from the convection.

And if you're willing to go to all that trouble to plumb and install an oil cooler, you might as well just change out your exhaust and J-tubes for proper heater boxes - it's less work.
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daclinz
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Agree ^^^
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mnelsonvw
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the early 90's they used to sell oil cooler heaters with blower units with dash controls that you would mount behind the back seat, in the spring you would relocate the cooler outside of the interior. I had one in my beetle back then and it actually workded well, kept the me and the windsheild from freezing. In hidsight I would rather restore the stock system than install the oil cooler agian.
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doc1369
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Windisch wrote:
I don't mean to offend anyone, so please don't take it personally, but why does everyone try to re-invent the heater in these cars? The only beneficial mod is to make them blow hot air when you are idling. Or in REALLY cold climates, perhaps a gas heater designed for a Beetle. The parts to make the stock heater work are relitively inexpensive. I just got a set of good used Dansk heat exchangers for $30. Get the stock heater working properly and you will be happy. Considering the pulse width modulated computer controlled blower motor for my Cadillac is $300, putting a Beetle heater together (with the exception of the heater channels) is pretty cheap. Again, no offense intended. If the heater core in my other cars were to take a crap, I would fix the heater core, not add all kinds of other heaters to keep warm. Wink


No offense taken here. I wish it was as simple as you put it, for me it's just not that simple. I have looked for a set of exchangers, mine are in better shape than the one's for sale used I can find. New are out of my price range. Worse the vital "little" parts I need are not available at any price, my budget is 100 bucks. So for me it's a simple matter of not being able to afford a heater core, but able to afford a different heater to keep me warm. Unless you want to sell me those heat exchangers for 35 bucks Twisted Evil Laughing
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lupin..the..3rd
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doc1369 wrote:
Paul Windisch wrote:
I don't mean to offend anyone, so please don't take it personally, but why does everyone try to re-invent the heater in these cars? The only beneficial mod is to make them blow hot air when you are idling. Or in REALLY cold climates, perhaps a gas heater designed for a Beetle. The parts to make the stock heater work are relitively inexpensive. I just got a set of good used Dansk heat exchangers for $30. Get the stock heater working properly and you will be happy. Considering the pulse width modulated computer controlled blower motor for my Cadillac is $300, putting a Beetle heater together (with the exception of the heater channels) is pretty cheap. Again, no offense intended. If the heater core in my other cars were to take a crap, I would fix the heater core, not add all kinds of other heaters to keep warm. Wink


No offense taken here. I wish it was as simple as you put it, for me it's just not that simple. I have looked for a set of exchangers, mine are in better shape than the one's for sale used I can find. New are out of my price range. Worse the vital "little" parts I need are not available at any price, my budget is 100 bucks. So for me it's a simple matter of not being able to afford a heater core, but able to afford a different heater to keep me warm. Unless you want to sell me those heat exchangers for 35 bucks Twisted Evil Laughing


Check the classifieds. I bought a set here for $50/ea. from a guy that refurbishes them. He takes good non-rusty used ones, boils them to get all the dirt, oil, and filth out of them, then paints them with a high temperature paint. They look and work like new for a fraction of the cost.
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daclinz
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ agreea ^^ .... go stock, the way it's suppose to be, cleaning up an old set isn't that hard and finding a good used set isnt that hard either.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1000191
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doc1369
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what happened to my exchangers, they where blasted and painted with high temp. Look great unless you look where they fit around the exhaust, 1" gap Sad . Then there's the exchanger to body tubes, body to channel tubes.........it's a really big list. Only good news is the channel itself, so someday....
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Zach Thomas
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heater boxes are definitely worth saving up for! I bought my Beetle before I started working and I forced myself to save for some. Well worth it. I also bought the gas heater because it's nice to turn on, let the car warm up for a couple minutes while I'll grab my stuff for school or work and then come out to a toasty warm car. Plus I can leave the heater on if I'm stopped somewhere for 5-10 minutes and don't want to leave the car idling Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damicotile wrote:
one of the Bakelite ducts that go thru the body is all broke up and you know what a bitch that is to replace.


You could do what I did to replace the bakelite tubes.....cut the flanges on the top and bottom flush with the tubes, just leaving the "ears" with the bolt holes and then the tubes will slip between the torsion tube and the body.
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Low67vdubinnocal
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternative heater options Reply with quote

damicotile wrote:
I'm running J-Tubes so no heat.
Any ideas on how to heat this thing simply. Like a plugin type heater?


Lucky for us we dont have that cold of weather here in the Sacramento area. But if you want to drive your bug some place like Reno or Portland OR. Not having a heater is no fun at all. I have the 12 volt truck stop heater and its of little use. I have the Home Depot version of the propane Heater buddy(SunRite) It says not to use it in an inclosed area. Also says heater will shut off if not enough Oxygen. And an open flame in a car just cant be good. I'm not sure if you or the heater will shut off first from lack of Oxygen. Have the Coleman Sportcat little larger than the Golfcat and no open flame but gets very hot says it needs as little 6 SQ. inches of air to not kill you or shut you off. Heater boxes are the best but if you use large merged headers and no heater ducts on the fan housing than heater boxes are out. I have seen the large heater box with header setup but it is not budget priced. Either I can set up my spare 1600 for heater box use and leave the 1915 with the merged headers and swap them out in spring and fall or just dress warm and wipe the windows a lot and not worry about it. I drove my bug to NE. in Nov. a few years ago for work and some place around Central NV. it stopped being fun and got real cold. As many no heater threads that are floating around on The Samba someone will figure it out. Or not.
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damicotile
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you guy's, all good arguments and points well taken.
I'm gonna call Tiger and see what the costs are for a flanged heater box system.
As far as making a heater system from the oil cooler idea as being a lot of work to plumb and duct and such, hell, that's why I rescued this car from the wreckers in the first place, to work on it. Coming up with mods is half the fun, at least for me anyway.
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Inane Cathode
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm... heat sources... if only there was some way to use all that heat coming out the exhaust to heat the car somehow Confused
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damicotile
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inane Cathode wrote:
Hmmmm... heat sources... if only there was some way to use all that heat coming out the exhaust to heat the car somehow Confused



Knucklehead Idea
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oreana123
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replace the criminally uncomfortable stock seats with seats that have internal heat. I have mid-90s Volvo seats in my Super. I live in Boise, Idaho. Daily commuter. The seats have both bottom and top heat, have a bolster, have lower back support, look great, elec motors on drivers side adjust all directions, passenger side seat still folds forward. Craigslist = $125.
My stock heating system is intact, at least the engine portion. I find the seat heating quite toasty, and no problem with ice formation on the inside of front glass. The door seals are tight.
By the way and in the interests of VW heresy, I do not necessarily consider the 1930s design of this car to be the last word on interior heating. As an ALTERNATIVE heat source, I think that the oil cooler/fan idea is great. Even in single digit weather, my oil temp gauge shows 60 degree C plus, a usable heat source.
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Superbug Scott
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have mid-90s Volvo seats in my Super

How well do those fit in your super (around the e brake)-I'd like to go this way as well
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