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Silicone to seal engine case
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candymustang65
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick's and dent's < What happenn's when some novice Pry's between the case halves on disassembly ?
On a new case or good case surface I will use V.W. Gaskacinch for a stocker 1600 cc
But Mild to H.P. or used case use aviation Permatex .
Use Ole lady's Green scotch brite pad too clean case half Matteing surfaces < to a shine < Push hard with thumb the black will come off .
The black is caused by vibration / slippage !
Realize that it is the Main bearing's / journal's that matter and the outer edge of the Case Matte surface is almost like a stretched outer cover, around the crank main's, and interior structure .
High temp Orange silicone is all that should ever be used on Cylinders !
I like a good healthy bead 1/4 inch down the O.D. of the barrel .
This is especially true on 92 mm Case bore .
Blue silicone is good for transaxles and shouldnt be used on Engines ?
I just went thru this Blue crappola idea some one had tried under Cyl.
Definate NO ! on blue !
Sean
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use Curil. I always used to use vw factory trans/engine case half sealant. I switched to curil and learned a lesson. I put on a light coat as i would with many other sealants, leaked like crazy.
SO when i built MY most recent personal engine, i tried a different tactic. I put on quite a bit of curil (read .020") with my finger and torqued the case. I noticed now i had a nice little bead about 6 thou in diameter all the way around the case. Just a tiny little green piece of paper sticking out all the way around. I decided to continue on and used it on the oil pump, gen stand, and at the cyl bases. This engine doesnt leak a drop. You could park it over white satin sheets and not worry.
So i went from disliking curil, to liking it after realizing it was operator error. Smile
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never used RTV silicone to seal case halves, but I've had great success on similar surfaces.
Most people use way too much of the stuff, and the excess oozes out everywhere.
A very easy way to apply it is with a rubber roller, like from an artist supply store.
You squirt a blob onto a clean piece of glass, use the roller to spread it to a thin film, and then use the roller to apply the silicone to the surface or to the gasket. It's very easy to do a perfect job of applying a very thin, even coat of the stuff. A little dab'll do ya.
Good luck, Mondshine
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bartman360
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a International Truck dealer near by, they sell a thier own brand of sealer that is similar to silicone. I stumbled across it in a gasket kit I purchased from them while doing a in-frame overhaul on a DT466, They use it to seal oil pans and other various items where gaskets are normally used but now replaced by this stuff. It is grey in color and much better quality than silicone and will not flake loose and ball up in your oil system. I have assembled my last two engines with it ( 2332, turbo 1915 ) and used it EVERYWHERE with no leaks and no oiling issues. It is about 25 bucks a tube but if you use it sparingly it goes along way. Very little is ever needed to seal surfaces wether using this stuff or silicone. My opinion is that in general, most people use way too much product to begin with and that is where the problem begins.

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gerg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used Gaskacinch, Curil T and on my current build I plan to use 518 for case sealing.

Ultra grey or black at cylinder bases, and once at Jack S.' recommendation, some Toyota black RTV at the push rod tube seals. Curil K2 on the sump / drain plate gaskets.

I also used a dab of ultra grey on the back sides of the cylinder head studs. On an inspection three years later it was completely intact, not peeling or lifting at all. That stuff is bad a**.

I know an engine builder who turns out pretty reliable stuff, at a fairly consistent pace, but he uses red RTV everywhere, even on case halves. I just don't get it.
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tinnocker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about pushrod tubes? Sealer or dry? Silicone? My 1914 crate engine had leaking pushrod tubes from the get go. When I replaced the old tubes I saw where the builder had used silicone. At least it looked like silicone because it stretched like a rubber band when I pulled it off.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Locktite 565 on the pushrod tube seals. It is sort of like a "liquid teflon" and works well + it stays flexable.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing is required there, why would you have to seal a seal? Makes no sense.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use PR tube seals and noting else....

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to agree that dry pushrod seals work best......anything that can aid in sliding before drying or setting up will tend to squeeze the seal out since they are not straight and concentric to the hole in the head and block.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: silicon sealant Reply with quote

Just for fun, one time I used the red silicon sealant to seal the two case halves together when I built an engine. It was a 1914 cc engine, 110 cam, full circle counterweighted crank 8 doweled and lightened flywheel and all parts were balanced. I line bored the case myself so it was good and fresh. And yes, I did check it with a dial indicater. I ran down Our local 1/8th mile drag strip over 40 times during the week end and was shifting at 7400 rpm. I pulled the engine apart directly afterwards and check the main bearing journels and bosses. Had a little scuffing between the case halves and the bosses on the 3 main bearings as well. The silicon took up enough space between the case halves even with proper torqueing the bearings were running a little loose.
Just something I had to try out to see if it was true.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: silicon sealant Reply with quote

Good post Hooker!

When I started ~1982 I used Gaskacinch, and it worked ok. Then when silicone came out I "upgraded" to using it everywhere, because I didn't know any better (25+ years ago). I saw firsthand that it was not the proper sealant for the job. I saw the problems and promptly switched back to Gaskacinch (Permatex Aviation) until I started using Curil ~10 years ago. Yamabond/hondabond is also excellent.

hooker wrote:
Just for fun, one time I used the red silicon sealant to seal the two case halves together when I built an engine. It was a 1914 cc engine, 110 cam, full circle counterweighted crank 8 doweled and lightened flywheel and all parts were balanced. I line bored the case myself so it was good and fresh. And yes, I did check it with a dial indicater. I ran down Our local 1/8th mile drag strip over 40 times during the week end and was shifting at 7400 rpm. I pulled the engine apart directly afterwards and check the main bearing journels and bosses. Had a little scuffing between the case halves and the bosses on the 3 main bearings as well. The silicon took up enough space between the case halves even with proper torqueing the bearings were running a little loose.
Just something I had to try out to see if it was true.

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gerg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any feedback here on 518?
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stanthedog
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In college, an instructor did a little demo to show why we don't use silicone. took some hardened silicone, put one in gas, one in diesel, one in oil, next day they were about four times the size. i've seen carbs that were garbage from someone slathering silicone on the seal surfaces. I use avation formagasket thinned down with med grade alcohol to get a nice thin layer. use a good stone on the halves to remove high spots, Had about 60k on my 1776 and not a drop was leaking(from the case anyway). instructors also taught most people think more is better, absolutly not true. they used silver paint to seal valve cover gaskets.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After I found Hylomar, there's been no going back for me. It's pricey, but nothing I've ever sealed with it has ever leaked. I use it on the case halves, and as a dressing for other gaskets. And no, it does not take much to do the job, just a thin coating on one case half is fine. Any more and it just seeps out into the engine, where no good will come of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have any of you ever tried using the old Indian Head sealant? Just wondering because I was gonna try it on my 2333 when it goes back together. If not then where are you guys finding the Permatex Aviation stuff? Never seen it at the local auto parts places.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Permatex avaiaton-- it's just brown nonhardeneing goop. Several brands availible.
If it's brown and sticky and stringy an says "non-hardeneing" then that's the stuff.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used Three-Bond sealer on my last VW engine, because it worked so well on my old motorcycle engines. Three-Bond also makes Yamabond, Hondabond, and Fujibond (Subaru factory sealer). Every Japanese motorcycle engine I've seen uses some form of it as a sealer on case halves and many other parts.

You can find it at any motorcycle shop, or from your local Subaru dealer.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mooosman wrote:
I used Three-Bond sealer on my last VW engine, because it worked so well on my old motorcycle engines. Three-Bond also makes Yamabond, Hondabond, and Fujibond (Subaru factory sealer). Every Japanese motorcycle engine I've seen uses some form of it as a sealer on case halves and many other parts.

You can find it at any motorcycle shop, or from your local Subaru dealer.

I also use 3-bond. No leaks!
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