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1970bug1600dp Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2011 Posts: 4 Location: maple valley washington
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: generator to alternator? |
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hi all im converting my 1970 bug 1600 dp to an alternator today anyone have a wiring diagram or know what i have to change |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Do a search - the generator alternator conversions have been covered a lot of times - but whether you are using an external voltage regulator or if the alternator has an internal one makes a big differenve on what you need to do. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76937 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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StuartN Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2010 Posts: 30 Location: Central Coast, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I used that diagram that Glenn posted and also watched this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwPDVDAuO7Y
That guy had a few suggestions not shown in the diagram (grounding and wiring to the starter).
Although, I'm not sure what the wiring to the starter actually does.
Mine's legit! |
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priss Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010 Posts: 348 Location: bradford MA
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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:53 am Post subject: |
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StuartN wrote: |
........
Although, I'm not sure what the wiring to the starter actually does.
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Adding an alternator of substantionaly larger amperage then the wiring in your car was designed for can lead to hot wires and fire. The large gauge wire from the Alternator to the starter is actually going directly to the battery positive pole. It is really just an extention of the large gauge wire that feeds the starter.
Another added benifit of running this wire, and making it as large as the battery to starter wire, is that you can now use the alternator positive stud for jump starts. Much easier then pulling the rear seat out and needing wicked long jumper cables.
Also when using your timing light you can hook it up right to the alternator positive. Works good for other 12v accesories too, like air compressor or lighting.
Be carefull though. The Alternator case is ground and quite close to the positive pole. Engine vibration can move aligator clamps and contact with the case can happen, along with alot of sparks. |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: |
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priss wrote: |
StuartN wrote: |
........
Although, I'm not sure what the wiring to the starter actually does.
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Adding an alternator of substantionaly larger amperage then the wiring in your car was designed for can lead to hot wires and fire. The large gauge wire from the Alternator to the starter is actually going directly to the battery positive pole. It is really just an extention of the large gauge wire that feeds the starter.
Another added benifit of running this wire, and making it as large as the battery to starter wire, is that you can now use the alternator positive stud for jump starts. Much easier then pulling the rear seat out and needing wicked long jumper cables.
Also when using your timing light you can hook it up right to the alternator positive. Works good for other 12v accesories too, like air compressor or lighting.
Be carefull though. The Alternator case is ground and quite close to the positive pole. Engine vibration can move aligator clamps and contact with the case can happen, along with alot of sparks. |
Charge wire gauge in alternator cars and generator cars are the same.
Adding a VW alternator does not add excessive amperage to the charge wire nor will it cause a fire.
Never jump start any car at the alternator charge wire,this is where you can cause a FIRE, the 10 gauge charge wire will not accept the 150 amps or so it takes to initially crank a starting motor.
Phew,your a dangerous one aint ya... |
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priss Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010 Posts: 348 Location: bradford MA
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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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johnnypan wrote: |
Phew,your a dangerous one aint ya... |
Yes, yes i am.
I am happy we are in agreement, about me, and that Bigger amps need bigger wires.
Alternator conversions come in up to 95 amp size last time i went shopping for one. Which would be substantionally larger then stock for either generator or alternator bugs. The explination i provided was about the reason for adding the big wire from the Alternator to the starter, as seen in the youtube vid link. Its explained better on the Rob and Dave pages, and the links they provide. I belive i got the gist of it. But your right too, same is same and if the Alt output is the same as the Gen output then you wouldnt need that wire.
I'm not electrical engineer but i can make practical decisions based on reasonalble comparitive evidence. I think, i read, i compare, i test and learn. Sometimes i make mistakes and learn even more. I would encourage this behavior in anyone who really wants to know stuff and not just repeat what others have said or done, provided of course that the cost of failure is not to dear.
Anyway,
Jumper cables are available in gauge 12, which i would never use, all the way up to gauge 4. Gauge 10 is therefore way over on the small side and borderline of usefull. But then i didnt suggest a gauge 10 wire. I suggested " making it as large as the battery to starter wire". Same is same right. If its a big enough wire from batery to starter then its the same if from alternator to starter.
Thanks for keeping your eye on me Johnny. Being dangerous is so much more fun when you might get caught. |
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Snoop Bob Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2003 Posts: 2687 Location: Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I just want to clarify...I will be running a 75 amp alternator with beefed up alternator wire straight to the a positive side post on the battery(it's a split Bus). I will also be running the standard seperate positive wire from the battery post to the starter. There is no need for the two to be connected together and no problem with the alterntor wired up to constant power? Correct? _________________
BarryL wrote: |
Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
EverettB wrote: |
I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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merkwürdigliebe Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, constant power shouldn't be a problem, as the alt has diodes in it so it doesn't leech power when it is off.
the D+ (idiot light / field) line should be through the ign. switch though, no constant power here, or it will slowly (well, the bulbs worth of current) kill the battery. |
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Snoop Bob Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2003 Posts: 2687 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Alternately...pun intended... ... Could I hook the B+ Alternator Wire up to the #30 starter lug using the stock type wiring from the battery to the #30 starter lug?? Would there be any difference in that over hooking the B+ up directly to the battery This would be for asthetics in the engine compartment, but I do not want to sacrifice functionality/chargeability. I am just trying to wiehg the options. Thanks in advance. _________________
BarryL wrote: |
Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
EverettB wrote: |
I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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priss Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010 Posts: 348 Location: bradford MA
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Snoop Bob wrote: |
Alternately...pun intended... ... Could I hook the B+ Alternator Wire up to the #30 starter lug using the stock type wiring from the battery to the #30 starter lug?? Would there be any difference in that over hooking the B+ up directly to the battery This would be for asthetics in the engine compartment, but I do not want to sacrifice functionality/chargeability. I am just trying to wiehg the options. Thanks in advance. |
The dash light still needs to be hooked up, but you can do the big wire to the starter post. Dash light creates the field which sets the alternator to charging. Alternators need to "see" 12 volts to make 12 volts. Or so goes the simple explination. |
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Snoop Bob Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2003 Posts: 2687 Location: Florida
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, I have the dash light covered. I am now concerned whether or not the smaller wire from the battery to the starter will properly handle the larger current flow (charge as efficiently) with the 75 AMP alternator and larger than stock wire from the B+ to that #30 starter lug. I didn't think it would be as efficient as the wire straight from the alternator to the battery but I could be mistaken. I would rather hook it up that way (cleaner/ more hidden) than a big wire straight over to the battery. Thanks again. _________________
BarryL wrote: |
Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
EverettB wrote: |
I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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priss Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010 Posts: 348 Location: bradford MA
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I admit i am not fully versed in Bus' wiring stuff. However, if the big wire from the battery positive pole goes directly to the #30 Starter lug, then attaching a SAME SIZE wire from the #30 starter lug to the alternator is the same as running the wire from the alternator directly to the battery. |
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Snoop Bob Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2003 Posts: 2687 Location: Florida
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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It is not the same size. Again...75 AMP alternator (not stock) to positive lug on starter with larger than stock wire...positive lug on battery with stock wire to battery(smaller than alternator wire)...The fact it is a bus is really a moot point.
If someone with current/amp transferrance knowledge could chime in with the answer (that appears obvious, but I just want to confirm) I would appreciate it. Thanks again. _________________
BarryL wrote: |
Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
EverettB wrote: |
I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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priss Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010 Posts: 348 Location: bradford MA
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Snoop Bob wrote: |
...75 AMP alternator (not stock) to positive lug on starter with larger than stock wire...positive lug on battery with stock wire to battery(smaller than alternator wire)... |
This is exactly what i have in my bug.
Good luck. |
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cruzan_71 Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 967 Location: St Croix USVI
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm doing a conversion as well, but my altenator has a 3-wire plug and a ground screw... Where does the other 2 wires come from on the harness in my 67?? _________________ Knowledge is Power, Education is the Key....
1977 Sportsmobile Camper
1967 Ragtop Bug
Why drink and drive, When u can Smoke and Fly!
Old City Oil Drippers VW Club - Pa
South Jersey VW Club
St Croix Twin City VW Club
Global Aircooled Society VI
(o\ l /o)
www.dubsontheboards.com |
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Bug Owner Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Victorville
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Snoop Bob wrote: |
It is not the same size. Again...75 AMP alternator (not stock) to positive lug on starter with larger than stock wire...positive lug on battery with stock wire to battery(smaller than alternator wire)...The fact it is a bus is really a moot point.
If someone with current/amp transferrance knowledge could chime in with the answer (that appears obvious, but I just want to confirm) I would appreciate it. Thanks again. |
So your 75 Amp alternator is going to produce about just over 1 kw of power so 1050 watts. You should use a cable to connect it continuously to the place the power is going to avoid the wire from overload and heat, fire etc.. 2 guage is best but 4 guage will also work. 10 guage will work too but doesn't have the capacity to carry the load needed without becoming a resistance to the flow of electrons. Which means you are burning out your alternator and your wire while providing too little power to charge your battery. So long story short.... connect that B+ on the alternator to the battery or the starter main battery cable with 4 or 2 guage wire directly. |
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camit34 Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006 Posts: 1567 Location: Commerce City CO
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: generator to alternator? |
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Great info! Thank you search button! _________________ In search of a Vanagon
1971 Westy (SOLD)
1971 Deluxe (SOLD)
1967 Freedom Camper (SOLD) |
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