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candymustang65 Banned
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 1674 Location: APPLE VALLEY
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Nick's and dent's < What happenn's when some novice Pry's between the case halves on disassembly ?
On a new case or good case surface I will use V.W. Gaskacinch for a stocker 1600 cc
But Mild to H.P. or used case use aviation Permatex .
Use Ole lady's Green scotch brite pad too clean case half Matteing surfaces < to a shine < Push hard with thumb the black will come off .
The black is caused by vibration / slippage !
Realize that it is the Main bearing's / journal's that matter and the outer edge of the Case Matte surface is almost like a stretched outer cover, around the crank main's, and interior structure .
High temp Orange silicone is all that should ever be used on Cylinders !
I like a good healthy bead 1/4 inch down the O.D. of the barrel .
This is especially true on 92 mm Case bore .
Blue silicone is good for transaxles and shouldnt be used on Engines ?
I just went thru this Blue crappola idea some one had tried under Cyl.
Definate NO ! on blue !
Sean |
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mightymouse Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 4220 Location: las vegas
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Use Curil. I always used to use vw factory trans/engine case half sealant. I switched to curil and learned a lesson. I put on a light coat as i would with many other sealants, leaked like crazy.
SO when i built MY most recent personal engine, i tried a different tactic. I put on quite a bit of curil (read .020") with my finger and torqued the case. I noticed now i had a nice little bead about 6 thou in diameter all the way around the case. Just a tiny little green piece of paper sticking out all the way around. I decided to continue on and used it on the oil pump, gen stand, and at the cyl bases. This engine doesnt leak a drop. You could park it over white satin sheets and not worry.
So i went from disliking curil, to liking it after realizing it was operator error. _________________ Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson
Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters. |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2769 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I've never used RTV silicone to seal case halves, but I've had great success on similar surfaces.
Most people use way too much of the stuff, and the excess oozes out everywhere.
A very easy way to apply it is with a rubber roller, like from an artist supply store.
You squirt a blob onto a clean piece of glass, use the roller to spread it to a thin film, and then use the roller to apply the silicone to the surface or to the gasket. It's very easy to do a perfect job of applying a very thin, even coat of the stuff. A little dab'll do ya.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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bartman360 Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008 Posts: 76 Location: Wa. State
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:28 am Post subject: |
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If you have a International Truck dealer near by, they sell a thier own brand of sealer that is similar to silicone. I stumbled across it in a gasket kit I purchased from them while doing a in-frame overhaul on a DT466, They use it to seal oil pans and other various items where gaskets are normally used but now replaced by this stuff. It is grey in color and much better quality than silicone and will not flake loose and ball up in your oil system. I have assembled my last two engines with it ( 2332, turbo 1915 ) and used it EVERYWHERE with no leaks and no oiling issues. It is about 25 bucks a tube but if you use it sparingly it goes along way. Very little is ever needed to seal surfaces wether using this stuff or silicone. My opinion is that in general, most people use way too much product to begin with and that is where the problem begins.
Bret _________________ ASE Master Tech 2002
FAA Issued Airframe & Powerplant Repair Cert 1986
Private Pilot Cert 1999
65 Type 1 2332
69 Baja 1915 Turbo
64 Pro Street El Camino 10.90 129 MPH
68 Camaro Coupe 350 LT1 F.I.
70 Pontiac Trans Am 400 4 Spd
Quote Modok
"Oh fooey.
You don't know till you try.
And I know you don't know because if you did you would know the reason for my knowing you didn't" |
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gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I have used Gaskacinch, Curil T and on my current build I plan to use 518 for case sealing.
Ultra grey or black at cylinder bases, and once at Jack S.' recommendation, some Toyota black RTV at the push rod tube seals. Curil K2 on the sump / drain plate gaskets.
I also used a dab of ultra grey on the back sides of the cylinder head studs. On an inspection three years later it was completely intact, not peeling or lifting at all. That stuff is bad a**.
I know an engine builder who turns out pretty reliable stuff, at a fairly consistent pace, but he uses red RTV everywhere, even on case halves. I just don't get it. _________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
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tinnocker Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2008 Posts: 439 Location: Jasper Georgia
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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What about pushrod tubes? Sealer or dry? Silicone? My 1914 crate engine had leaking pushrod tubes from the get go. When I replaced the old tubes I saw where the builder had used silicone. At least it looked like silicone because it stretched like a rubber band when I pulled it off. |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I use Locktite 565 on the pushrod tube seals. It is sort of like a "liquid teflon" and works well + it stays flexable. |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Nothing is required there, why would you have to seal a seal? Makes no sense. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20378 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Use PR tube seals and noting else....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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RockCrusher Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2010 Posts: 4596 Location: Parkesburg, PA
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Have to agree that dry pushrod seals work best......anything that can aid in sliding before drying or setting up will tend to squeeze the seal out since they are not straight and concentric to the hole in the head and block.
RC _________________ [email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.
I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. |
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hooker Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004 Posts: 261 Location: Bend, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: silicon sealant |
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Just for fun, one time I used the red silicon sealant to seal the two case halves together when I built an engine. It was a 1914 cc engine, 110 cam, full circle counterweighted crank 8 doweled and lightened flywheel and all parts were balanced. I line bored the case myself so it was good and fresh. And yes, I did check it with a dial indicater. I ran down Our local 1/8th mile drag strip over 40 times during the week end and was shifting at 7400 rpm. I pulled the engine apart directly afterwards and check the main bearing journels and bosses. Had a little scuffing between the case halves and the bosses on the 3 main bearings as well. The silicon took up enough space between the case halves even with proper torqueing the bearings were running a little loose.
Just something I had to try out to see if it was true. _________________ 2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon
I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: Re: silicon sealant |
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Good post Hooker!
When I started ~1982 I used Gaskacinch, and it worked ok. Then when silicone came out I "upgraded" to using it everywhere, because I didn't know any better (25+ years ago). I saw firsthand that it was not the proper sealant for the job. I saw the problems and promptly switched back to Gaskacinch (Permatex Aviation) until I started using Curil ~10 years ago. Yamabond/hondabond is also excellent.
hooker wrote: |
Just for fun, one time I used the red silicon sealant to seal the two case halves together when I built an engine. It was a 1914 cc engine, 110 cam, full circle counterweighted crank 8 doweled and lightened flywheel and all parts were balanced. I line bored the case myself so it was good and fresh. And yes, I did check it with a dial indicater. I ran down Our local 1/8th mile drag strip over 40 times during the week end and was shifting at 7400 rpm. I pulled the engine apart directly afterwards and check the main bearing journels and bosses. Had a little scuffing between the case halves and the bosses on the 3 main bearings as well. The silicon took up enough space between the case halves even with proper torqueing the bearings were running a little loose.
Just something I had to try out to see if it was true. |
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
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gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Any feedback here on 518? _________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
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stanthedog Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2006 Posts: 357 Location: Portland,oregon.
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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In college, an instructor did a little demo to show why we don't use silicone. took some hardened silicone, put one in gas, one in diesel, one in oil, next day they were about four times the size. i've seen carbs that were garbage from someone slathering silicone on the seal surfaces. I use avation formagasket thinned down with med grade alcohol to get a nice thin layer. use a good stone on the halves to remove high spots, Had about 60k on my 1776 and not a drop was leaking(from the case anyway). instructors also taught most people think more is better, absolutly not true. they used silver paint to seal valve cover gaskets. |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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After I found Hylomar, there's been no going back for me. It's pricey, but nothing I've ever sealed with it has ever leaked. I use it on the case halves, and as a dressing for other gaskets. And no, it does not take much to do the job, just a thin coating on one case half is fine. Any more and it just seeps out into the engine, where no good will come of it. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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56bugdan Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2008 Posts: 250 Location: NEW JERSEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Have any of you ever tried using the old Indian Head sealant? Just wondering because I was gonna try it on my 2333 when it goes back together. If not then where are you guys finding the Permatex Aviation stuff? Never seen it at the local auto parts places. |
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spanky324 Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2006 Posts: 1070 Location: Greeley Pa
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Napa carries it! |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26781 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Permatex avaiaton-- it's just brown nonhardeneing goop. Several brands availible.
If it's brown and sticky and stringy an says "non-hardeneing" then that's the stuff. |
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Mooosman Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2007 Posts: 269 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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I used Three-Bond sealer on my last VW engine, because it worked so well on my old motorcycle engines. Three-Bond also makes Yamabond, Hondabond, and Fujibond (Subaru factory sealer). Every Japanese motorcycle engine I've seen uses some form of it as a sealer on case halves and many other parts.
You can find it at any motorcycle shop, or from your local Subaru dealer. |
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oldbritishcarnut Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2009 Posts: 88 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Mooosman wrote: |
I used Three-Bond sealer on my last VW engine, because it worked so well on my old motorcycle engines. Three-Bond also makes Yamabond, Hondabond, and Fujibond (Subaru factory sealer). Every Japanese motorcycle engine I've seen uses some form of it as a sealer on case halves and many other parts.
You can find it at any motorcycle shop, or from your local Subaru dealer. |
I also use 3-bond. No leaks! _________________ Rick
69 Beetle
65 Beetle
63 MGB |
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