New bay window owner/Watercooled Conversion

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject:

Yeah the garage is nice to have, but it fills up fast and you always wish it were bigger.

My wife's favorite color is green, so the fact that this one is green made it that much cooler. We LOVE the wood grain and plaid interior too. We're going to outfit it with 70's era tacky stuff for camping (dishes, linens, etc).
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

chazz79 · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject:

I've got a nice garage too but it rarely sees a vehicle. My recent activity hass been due to pulling all the bus crap out of the garage and putting it into or onto the bus.

Soon enough I'll actually be able to put a bus in there.

The proper term for those dollies would be "BUS ROLLER SKATES" That's what my kids call them and it's kinda fitting. I have the fancier harbor frieght jobbies made from steel. I believe the set cost 80.00 for four. It's a hard job but someones got to finance China's economic takeover of the united states.

Now get crackin' with some ecotech mock-up pics. The rest of us would like to get educated. I'm always game when someone else is picking up the tab.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

zaakystyles · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject:

We have a garage with space for 4 vehicles. You always want a bigger one hahahah.

One space is reserved as the VW Pile (litterally probably could stack it better?), one spot has a 68 beetle being painted and waiting for an engine, the other spot my dad parks his 70 Ghia in, and the other spot my bus is constantly parked in for work.

The sides are covered with junk too and if we made some rafters, I'm sure we would find something to pile up there too.

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:28 am Post subject:

Just got my adapter kit from Kennedy. This one actually came earlier than they said. I'm hoping to get the T4 motor out soon so I can hit the ground running once school gets out.

Oh, I also ordered a battery tray for the right side. The stock one is very rusty, and I figure the best time to replace it is with the motor out.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

rhader · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:37 am Post subject:

excited to watch this thread!!

I am in the early stages of planning a water cooled conversion for my 75 Westfalia Camper as well!

the beginning:
1.9TDI (AHU engine)
current trans with a new build (gearing: 4.13 R/P with a 1.14 3rd and .70 4th.)
with Kennedy adapter plate

interested to see how your radiator additions and such go...

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:40 am Post subject:

I will be doing the radiator underneath as has been shown here and other places. I will definitely be adding pics and telling you what I experience.

There just isn't much documentation or discussion of water cooled conversions in these buses. I will do my part to change that Very Happy

_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

rhader · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:47 am Post subject:

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:51 am Post subject:

I'm not sure I'm still going to mod the rear skirt.

The paint (while faded) is not bad, and I'd hate to burn it up or harm it by cutting/welding.

I'm also not sure I'll need to do it. I have a lift in my garage so I can pick the bus up off of the motor, and hopefully the motor won't have to come in and out very often Laughing

_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

rhader · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:52 am Post subject:

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:58 am Post subject:

That's 3/4 of the reason I want to do the conversion.

Look at the front page of the forum at any given time. It seems half of the threads are questions about poor/no running, or blown motors.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

rhader · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:00 pm Post subject:

careful... saying things like that can make you unpopular!! Wink

I agree though the air cooled 30 year old motors can pocess some difficulties and are not necessarily cross country ready engines....

RatCamper · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject:

yep. it's usually the motor which is the weak link. the argument saying that it will just shift the weak component to something else doesn't apply here either. These motors haven't aged well over decades of who knows what done to them. Sure I've replaced my 35 year old motor with a 30 year old motor, but i walked into the wrecker and they had a section which had EA81 powered Subarus. How easy is that! I haven't seen a VW in a wrecker in about a decade.

I know I said this earlier, but beware. the devil is in the details.

I'm constantly rearranging and modifying things. My next step is changing to an electronic distributor and high energy transformer coil. After that will probably be hacking up my main coolant lines to splice in a couple of Vulcoflex hoses so I can route them over the beam. After that some fabrication to stop flow-by past the radiator of cooling air and recirculation of hot air. Probably a thousand other minor details too.
_________________
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject:

So you want to put your radiator ahead of the beam? Is it going to be Mexican style or still under the bus?
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

RatCamper · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject:

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject:

Oh ok rear beam. I thought you were talking front beam. I'm going to try the galvanized fence post. I have a tubing bender which I hope will make for a clean install.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject:

I made some progress today, but it was one step forward and 2 steps back. Me and a friend got the motor out pretty easily.

After getting the motor out I was able to take some better measurements and there are some issues. The Ecotec has a coolant hose that runs behind the motor as well as an EGR valve and the power steering pump (driven off of the back of the cam). I can pull the pump off and put a block off plate on it which buys me a few inches, but I'll still have 2-3 inches of cylinder head that will interfere with the gas tank.

I contemplated running a spun aluminum buggy tank, but I'd have to have one ordered with an extra bung for a fuel return, plus there are issues with interfacing with the stock fuel filler, and a reduced fuel capacity. I want to be able to drive long distances in this bus, and don't want to only have 8 gallons of gas on board.

I think the best solution will be to modify the stock tank to clear the motor. I think I can do it without losing more than a gallon of capacity. I am confident in my mig welding, but I may take this to a friend who does gas welding regularly.

I drained about 6-7 gallons of some very foul smelling gasoline out of the tank, and took the straps loose. So the next step will probably be to pull the tank, install the motor, and make a cardboard template of the area I'll need to modify on the tank. This should get interesting. Confused

_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Ray1967Beetle · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject:

Sweet bus. I just bought one about a month ago. Same color and everything. The front of mine was in primer also. When I saw the photo I thought you had stolen my picture. Our buses are very close in condition. Mine is a 76 westy. I picked mine up for $850 though. Complete engine and trans. My cabinets look to be in a little better shape. The canvas top is brand new and has some fancy FI delete with a EMPI carb. Don't know if thats better or not. Anyways, good luck with your restoration!
_________________
1976 Westfalia Camper, Baby Poop Green
I am a professional Draftsman, if anyone needs to document anything they build hit me up. I can build a 3d Model and make construction drawings using Solidworks.

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:25 pm Post subject:

Something else we have in common, I used to be a CAD guy. The market tanked around here though and I couldn't find a job, so now I'm in nursing school and loving it.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject:

OK so I made some progress today.

After measuring and thinking about it, I realized I needed to cut the back "apron" out. The motor fits with it, but not with the studs, flywheel, pressure plate etc, hanging off the back. I couldn't get it up and into the trans as one piece. So I cut a section of the apron out and will weld up tabs to bolt it back in so all you'll see is 2 lines. I cut it off center because I wanted to leave the part of the engine bay with the VIN plate intact so it wouldn't appear suspicious. The bumper should hide most of this.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Next up I was able to slide the motor in to see how bad my interference would be with the back of the motor (the fuel tank was removed so I could slide the motor all the way back without that hitting). As I expected, I had interference with the metal coolant line that runs across the back of the head. It was hitting on the front edge of the shelf that the gas tank sits on (where the foam seal goes for the T4). So I cut that out, being careful not to cut into the top trans mounts (yet not careful enough to avoid cutting the CRAP out of my hand when the abrasive blade caught and blew up). This is what I cut away. I'm going to cut more on the right side (looking in the back) because the rubber radiator hose still hits.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

So with that out of the way, the motor slides all the way in, but the EGR provision on the back of the head will hit the gas tank. Not as bad as I thought though. So I started looking at the motor, and realized that I can block the EGR port on the exhaust side with some putty allowing me to cut the big protrusion off the back of the head, eliminating that from hitting. I still may have some interference on the back of the head where the power steering pump bolts up (it's driven off the back of the cam) but I should be able to massage that with a hammer to avoid cutting the tank. (you can see the EGR mount in the middle of the head, and the power steering drive right behind the oil cap).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

So this is what the motor looks like sitting in the engine bay. It's a bit tight at the top, but I should be fine. I'm happy to see I'll have good room for the exhaust and air filter setups. I'm sad to see I'll have to come up with something for the throttle cable Sad

I'm going to take the next 4 days off from the bus. I know I just got started, but my wife has the next 4 days off and we don't get to see each other very much (I'm a full time nursing student, she works 7 days a week to put me through school). I don't have to go back to school until August 22nd though so I'm going to make a big push the next couple of weeks.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:57 am Post subject:

I've been making progress but I've been out in the garage too much to post updates. I'm taking a day off from the garage (physically and mentally drained, and there's a VW show tonight I'm taking my bug to) so I thought I'd update.

First up was the motor. As mentioned previously, there were some interference points between the gas tank and the back of the cylinder head. Originally I thought I was going to have to cut the tank and notch it, but after some simple mods, I think I'm good to go. As you can see, a simple block-off plate for the power steering pump was made. The biggest interference was the EGR mount. After looking at the head closely (and pulling the exhaust manifold off to verify), the EGR mount is easily removed. I used various air and electric tools to cut the mount off. On the intake side, no block off is needed, so I only need to block off the exhaust side. I found a Permatex product that is a single part putty that is good to 2000 degrees. It's designed to repair cast exhaust manifolds, and reports on the internet shows it works, even on turbo headers which get MUCH hotter than my application. These two pictures are before and after of the EGR mount removal:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

After these mods, I put the gas tank in, then set the motor in. I was VERY close to getting it bolted in. The only thing holding me up is the pinch weld seam on the tank. So out the motor came (thank god I bought the harbor freight motorcycle jack so it's a 1 man operation), then the gas tank. I hammered the seam down and put it all back in. The only place that hits now is the top bolt for my power steering mount hits the tank. I marked the tank and will peen that in when the gas tank and motor come back out.

Now that the motor and gas tank fit, I was able to turn my attention to the cooling system. It took 2 trips to the junkyard, but I'm pretty satisfied with the parts I got. The radiator is from an 82 Chevy truck with a small block. I know someone here was running that radiator, but I swear I didn't do it to copy you Laughing

. The radiator is just about as big as you can go between the frame rails, it has provisions for mounting easily, can be purchased new cheap, and can be easily found in any area the bus may break down in. The fans are from a 96 Altima, and fit the radiator just about perfectly. I also grabbed a header tank from a 98 Taurus to mount up top somewhere. The tank looks pretty easy to fab a mount for, comes with a low level sender for a light, and again, cheap and plentiful. Bonus it came with the cap too (many had the caps removed for some reason). So with parts in hand, I built a cage from 1x1x1/8 steel angle.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

4 holes drilled in the bottom of the cage allow the radiator to bolt to the cage. Basically, the cage will be boxed in except for the front. I'll build a scoop on the front to push air into the box. Once in the box, the air has no place to go except through the radiator. The intention for now is to have the fans sitting in the box on top of the radiator (as shown in the pic). I'm probably going to drill some holes in the shroud to let more air through the radiator. I know a solid shroud is more efficient with the fans on, but the goal is to not have the fans on all the time. The next step is to weld some steel to the cage that will allow bolting of it to the frame rails of the bus. The design is to have the bottom of the radiator about 4" below the bottom of the frame rails. This should leave about 7-8" of ground clearance to the bottom of the radiator, which should be fine for everything but off-roading (which I don't intend to do in this bus). After the cage is mounted to the bus, I'll run the coolant lines and work on my rear engine mount. I'll keep the updates coming.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

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New bay window owner/Watercooled Conversion
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