New motor build 1904cc

W1K1 · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:06 pm Post subject: New motor build 1904cc

Since my stock 65 1500 case has been rebuilt into a 1600 I have had some overheating issues on the highway. So after a couple of summers of driving it, i decided to build a new engine that has more torque to get me around town, and get me down the highway without frying itself.

So to begin I picked up a late T3 FI motor from a buddy along with a 65 parts car.
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under all the mouse nests and dirt and nice case that still had cad plating on the hardware.

So i shipped it off to brothers machine for a line bore, bored for 90.5mm, decked, and drilled / welded for the T3 full flow option.

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They drill and tap the case for a plug between the pump outlet and the inlet.

In the time between cleaning the case and shipping it off i purchased a set of DRD ported stock valved L3

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

W1K1 · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject:

After a few ideas getting tossed about in the engine forum I came up with.....
90.5mm x74mm
Stock pdsit carbs, oil bath, heat exchangers, OTT exhaust
Engle w100
DRD L3 heads
8:1 compression

It will look stock from the outside with some beefing up on the inside Wink

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

supaninja · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject:

Nice!

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Nick
Megasquirted Type 4 powered Notch http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Blog of Doom http://supaninjanick.wordpress.com/

Rome · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject:

The case sure cleaned up well! What did you utilize?

For your additional displacement, have you considered a larger venturi for the PDSITs for better airflow?

The larger venturi #3296 fits right into the PDSIT carb body-
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1212

When I visited CB Performance a few years ago I brought along the stock PDSIT venturi. Comparing it with the 3296 in the store, it had the same height and outer diameter.

W1K1 · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject:

I have the bus 26mm vents to try first in the carbs.

The case took a pile of srubbing with castrol superclean, carb cleaner, and the dremel with scotchbrite
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

Brent · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject:

I'm excited to see how this build comes together as I had a 1904 longblock built for my car. I think we may be in the same boat here with the heater boxes, I wanted a stroker and retain the heat. Lot of naysayers for that combo, but we'll see. Too bad the CSP high flow heater boxes are so expensive.
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69 Fastback Build (Doris)

supersuk · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject:

That is a nice looking combo of parts. One way you can improve is to add fuel injection! Right now would be the best time to install a trigger wheel. cough cough.

Very Happy

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W1K1 · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:52 pm Post subject:

I have a buddy who was running a 1904cc in his bus with stock heater boxes and he loved it. Ran cool and strong for him.

I have the bulk of the parts coming so we'll see how things measure up and go together over the next couple weeks. Then if they are all good we'll send the rotating parts off for balancing.

I still have to decide on rod length, it was 5.5" but the case was decked so we'll see what the stock rods give us for deck height and go from there.

At what point do you need to change to solid mounts on the subframe? 100HP? 75? 150?

While FI would be nice, it would spoil the stock look of the engine compartment.

And the Square is going to be officially parked this weekend if the weather keeps up, the city dumped its first batch of salt for the season this week. Sad

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

mxracer · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject:

Just for reference... the 1904 I just built, I used stock length rods (case wasn't decked) and ended up with a .058" deck height with a .090 shim.

Also just read the specs on the DRD heads, if I looked at the right ones. With the above deck height and 54cc chambers in the heads it gave me an 8.5:1 CR. You mention above wanting 8:1. With 53CCs in the DRD heads your gonna have to run either shims and copper gaskets or get spacers made I think.

One other tidbit you can throw down if you want... Smile

The stock rods would have taken a good bit of clearance work at each hole in the case. I ended up with Scat radius I beam rods and the only case clearance work needed was about a 1" 1/2 moon at each hole in the case. For me the rods were worth not taking so much out of the case right at the holes.

W1K1 · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject:

Was that A or B pistons? I have the B pistons on the way.

I checked the heads they are actually 53cc and aircooled.net has for the w100. "Use a compression ratio of 7.5-8.25:1."
So i have some room to go either way
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

mxracer · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject:

I used A pistons.

W1K1 · Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject:

Nobody?

W1K1 · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:16 am Post subject:

Okay now i have the 90.5 B pistons and I put them on with the stock 69mm crank and stock 5.394" rods to see what we have for deck height.

.203" or 5.15mm
Subtract the difference of the 74 crank 2.5mm = 2.65mm or 1.04" deck height.

Now this was just a quick check with one cyl to see where were were so not super accurate by any means Wink

So if i bought 5.4 rods we would be at 7.8 compression with no spacers or copper head gaskets.

Or with 5.5 rods we would be flush and adding spacers.

I better get some more accurate measurements with things snugged up.

One thing i did find out was using thick washers under the case bolts on a decked case will leave your pistons not sitting on the case.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

supaninja · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject:

As far as solid mounts go, I think it has more to do with your driving style and the purpose of the car. If you get on it hard alot and some decent power(100+ hp) then you might want the solid subframe mounts.

I make more then that powerwise, but I got so much flex from my rear tranny mounts and brace bar mounts, plus my subframe flexes more then a bowflex. They would be the last thing on the list to address.
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Nick
Megasquirted Type 4 powered Notch http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Blog of Doom http://supaninjanick.wordpress.com/

W1K1 · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:37 am Post subject:

So it looks like 5.5" rods
After bolting the cylinders down and measuring with the mic we have
Deck height with 69 crank and stock 5.394" rods =.218"
Minus the difference in the 74 stroke .098" = .12"
Minus the change in rod length .106" = .014"
I will order .030" and .040" shims to go with my .040 and .090" shims i have and ther should be some combination that will work to get my compression where i want it.

Of course we get to do it all over when the crank and rod get here anyways. Very Happy

_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

luckystiff · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:20 am Post subject:

W1K1 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject:

How about distributors for this combo.
I am running an old Lowbugget SVDA with my engine right now, or I have a late model T3 distributor in my parts collection.
Any advantage or disadvantage to either?
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1961 beetle
1965 squareback 1500E

supaninja · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject:

68notch · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject:

I am looking fwd to this motor too.

I was thinking to build an all new 2007cc but the costs just go up and up when the bigger motor with more power also needs a fresh case, a bigger exhaust and new carbs etc etc.

Using the original case, carbs and exhaust sounds like a good option.

EFI ninja style could be done too??
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John

68 Aussie notch
2011 Citroen Berlingo

RHD dash pad project http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=475227

supaninja · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject:

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