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willz0072002 Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004 Posts: 60
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:41 pm Post subject: this technique works for rust.. |
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just tried zero-rust spray rust sealer......paint store said it was the equivelant of por15 in a can...we'll see- i used it on the roof (someone had drilled a roof rack into it) and lower trim area in a couple spots for light rust- sprayed liberally, scuffed,filled, primed, sealed and painted over...ill be watching my roof very closely..
on the spots I knew were rust (rear 1/4 panel and some areas old body damage) were comletely removed and rather than welding the rounded pieces, I epoxy fiberglassed the panels from the inside, and coated after it cured with por15 mixed with fiberglass cloth. on the exteriior side i just filled with filler and glaze, prime seal and viola...perfection.
renegade bodyman experimenting |
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3Bugs Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 503 Location: Palmdale California
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I tried the POR15 under filler and paint before with sad results. The filler popped off after a short time. I just had a skin coat of filler over it too. This stuff is tight once it’s cured and hard to get much of anything to bite into it.
Zero Rust is good stuff and should be OK for what you used it for as long as it was fully cured before you filled and primed it. A liberal application may need longer to dry. The problem if it was not dried is the solvent will want to leach through to the surface. If the solvent is not compatible with your primer and top coats it will cause failure http://www.zerorust.com/tech.htm#topcoats . _________________ 3Bugs
Well, actually a 67 Bug, 72 Super, 61 Ghia and a 2004 Beetle Vert (sorry) |
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willz0072002 Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004 Posts: 60
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:43 am Post subject: .... |
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did you scuff the por and prime with primer, sealer ? |
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Bussit Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 93 Location: center of the city, USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I've never messed with paint and body before so excuse this response if it seems non-sensical. If the an area has been treated already with a rust converter like permatex, wouldn't a coat of aerosal paint work like the zero rust paint. Both are sealing the metal from any further oxygen penetration.
Is this way off?
Bussit |
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3Bugs Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 503 Location: Palmdale California
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Scuffing POR15 is not easy to do. Once you do scuff it you’re breaking the seal and therefore reducing the integrity of the product. POR15’s own web site claims that the reason you get rid of the rust forever is because of how airtight the product is. That tightness is exactly the problem you have trying to obtain the chemical bite you should try to achieve to get your best adhesion.
To answer the “why seal if you already rust treated”.
In painting a car you want your coatings to bite as much as possible. Part of the process is creating a chemical bond which occurs every time you layer a coating on top of each other. Some products are compatible to this chemical bond while others are not. In the case of Zero Rust, I only cautioned the use of heavy coats under filler and primer due to their own spec sheet indicating that they do not know what coatings their own product is compatible with. The do give examples to what they do know.
Also, you should never assume that a product will forever seal anything. Again, if you read the claims there are test in which a coated part lasted XX number of hours in a salt bath. Pollution, other chemical exposure like gas, acid rain, stone chips and etc… are not mentioned.
I must note that everyone has a recipe for how they like to paint. In my case I do not use etch primer, I don’t use paint over rust products nor do I use any rust converters. The later two are used when they are only going to treat exposed metal that will not be finished painted. I prefer to chemical strip, sand, then metal condition to reduce the promotion of rust. Then I cover with an epoxy sealer, fill, base coat and then clear coat. Again, this is how I do it not to say that this is how it MUST be done. _________________ 3Bugs
Well, actually a 67 Bug, 72 Super, 61 Ghia and a 2004 Beetle Vert (sorry) |
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willz0072002 Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004 Posts: 60
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: i agree |
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i agree that using rust treatment of any kind is not a better idea than to remove and replace...it is risky, but I have had excellent results with POR 15 line and other of their products...4 and 8 years later still perfect...but experimenting is dangerous...
... there is just alot of other methods to achieve different results...if i was keeping this car to pass to my son, i would have wanted it to last forever.....im happy for it to last 10 years....especially considering the cost/time ratio.. under 40 hours...and under 300 bucks.. |
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3Bugs Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 503 Location: Palmdale California
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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And that’s the type of thinking that drives those very impotent financial decisions.
BTW… I did not want to leave any impression that POR15 was not good product. I too think its great but I only use it in very specific locations were it makes sense to do so. _________________ 3Bugs
Well, actually a 67 Bug, 72 Super, 61 Ghia and a 2004 Beetle Vert (sorry) |
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willz0072002 Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004 Posts: 60
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject: o yea |
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o, also i only applied por 15 to the inner wheel well area over the fiberglass...so no filler was over it...but i have put filler over por 15 in the past...
is that your ghia in the avatar? do u have any more pics |
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CymonSez Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2004 Posts: 29 Location: Sunny So-Cal
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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the only true cure for rust is to cut it out! |
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3Bugs Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 503 Location: Palmdale California
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Not my Ghia but like my Ghia. I have to get the scanner going and post some pictures for you all. _________________ 3Bugs
Well, actually a 67 Bug, 72 Super, 61 Ghia and a 2004 Beetle Vert (sorry) |
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Bratman Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2004 Posts: 124 Location: Bourbonnais,Il.
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Did you use the primer made by Por15 ? Putting their primer on -cure ,then fill. Or e-mail Por 15 for instructions. _________________ Tell me again about how this won't take much time, or money, and my car will be back in the garage before I know it ? |
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Levonbenelli Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004 Posts: 1171
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I just bought a gallon of zero rust for $50. It's really easy to apply and looks nice...I won;t know for a long time how well it works, but so far so good. _________________ Wanted: flipseat parts: rear jump seat, folding chair, cups |
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