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Baja68
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Joined: June 08, 2007
Posts: 575
Location: Houston Texas
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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: My suby 2.5 conversion |
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I have been searching and searching and I have found lots of usefull info on the suby conversion but not very much was in great detail you find a picture here and there and a few tips. But no real buggy conversion thread from start to finish with tips on what are the best parts to buy the place s to find them and so on.
If there is a thread out there please post it for me 
I am going to try and put this thread together while I do my concversion go over some of the items I have over come and some still in progress my hope is that when I have finished my car others that attempt this conversion can look at this thread and find helpfull info for there conversion. Or that they can look at this thread and say I better not try this or they can look and see the real cost on doing this.
I intend to post items I purchased aswell with the cost and where I found them aswell.
If others are in the process of there buggy suby conversion feel free to put tips and info in.
So first you have to buy an engine I got my engine on the cheap do to the fact I run a subaru service depatment I picked up a core going back on a insurance claim that had 4 bent valves the insurance wanted to replace the engine so the did with a junk yard motor I bought the return core for 100.00 and spent 250.0 to overhaul ( at dealer cost from my position) this would have cost much more at retail price on parts I did all the labor myself.
So after you get the motor you need to decide if flipping the intake will suit your build or not it needed flipping for mine.
I pulled the intake and removed the factory engine harness then remounted the engine harness with the intake flipped this was a bit of a challange because the harness is not ment to be installed ths way. I managed to get this done with only having to cut and exstend the throtle position sensor wire the rest as able to reach.
I also bought the engine that was best suited for my build the intake has No EGR system no MAF sensor and no air cleaner box sensor I think its the air intake temp sensor in the box.
After the engine was built it has to be mounted wich will require a adapter plate and possible a different trasnmission depending on your application.
See this link for info on that
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=491924
There is lots of info there about transmission options and adapter plate retailers links and so on.
I bought the kennedy adapter and plan to always use the type one trans I will be buying a built type 1 later for mine.
Here is some pics of my engine and my plate
This weekend while I am at home I will up load several pics on the items I have already done and some of that I am in progress on.
also I will load more pics of the harness work I did the fuel pump my radiator plans and more.
Shawn
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MURZI
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Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 3718
Location: Madisonville, La
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Tom_Kathleen
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Joined: August 26, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Vernon, CT
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe this will help. http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album437 We did this a few years ago and it is working well. Doing upgrades this winter like adding a heater. Tom
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Baja68
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Joined: June 08, 2007
Posts: 575
Location: Houston Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I keep the buggy at home but I have it up here when ever I want to use a lift or shop equipment.
If you plan to stop by ever just post it and I will haul it or drive it up to the shop.
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Last edited by Baja68 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 10212
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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For radiator there is a JEEP CHEROKEE model (sorry don't have the year) that is about 10-11 inches tall and about 24 inches wide... It will mount vertically above trans axle and under back package deck of FG buggy body... Electric cooling fans are a must, but no problem... One of my friends is running a subie with Cherokee radiator at auto cross events and street driving and nobody has a clue its a water cooled motor.... HE is also running Megasquirt for ECU as it was a whole lot simpler to build new harness and wire in the MS then revamp stock harness and try to get ECU reflashed to proper ratios... With MS all you need is laptop and "tuner software"...
Dale
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MURZI
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Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 3718
Location: Madisonville, La
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
For radiator there is a JEEP CHEROKEE model (sorry don't have the year) that is about 10-11 inches tall and about 24 inches wide... It will mount vertically above trans axle and under back package deck of FG buggy body... Electric cooling fans are a must, but no problem... One of my friends is running a subie with Cherokee radiator at auto cross events and street driving and nobody has a clue its a water cooled motor.... HE is also running Megasquirt for ECU as it was a whole lot simpler to build new harness and wire in the MS then revamp stock harness and try to get ECU reflashed to proper ratios... With MS all you need is laptop and "tuner software"...
Dale |
well that radiator experiment could make for some bad azz bajas too!! Hmmmm
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streetbuggy8804
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Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 526
Location: Long Beach, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Here is mine so far
Engine support
Painted up and ready to be welded
Triangulated
First try at engine support. Later changed it. Moved the engine up 1 inch. No pics
Test fit
Reversed the intake manifold
Some parts
Created this grill for radiator air flow
Back seat sub woofer enclose cut out and ready for grill install
Grill in place
Had to move the wiring to the tri-star module and dual load equalizer
Vw corrado radiator. 12x 24.5. Perfect fit except for a little grinding
In place
1 radiator or 2
IMO high torque starter
Radiator side view
Over looked the starter when planning engine support. Starter barely fit. Man am I glad that it did
Will be using a Subaru hood scoop to direct air flow through the grill to the radiator
Inside view with radiator in place
One center mount radiator?
That is all for now. Picking up the stinger ecu from outback motorsports tomorrow as well as modding the throttle body and test fitting it. Few odds and end and improving things while I am at it. |
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surfbeetle
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Baja68
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Joined: June 08, 2007
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Location: Houston Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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That's a cool radiator set up you are doing. I am in Texas it's so hot here I did not want the radiator any where near me. I had thought about the location you chose and I also thought maybe between my rear roll cage above the rear seat. But I felt both would end up with heat from the radiator and noise from the fans would bother me.
I will be putting the radiator behind the engine inside the rear bumper. Only down side I see is it blocks the view of the engine. We will see what it looks like once I get the radiator next week.
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Andy P
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Joined: February 04, 2001
Posts: 974
Location: NSW, Australia.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I really need to show my brother this thread.
He has an Aussie Manx copy called a J&S Buggy that he gave a body lift and lengthen to fit on a standard pan and then fitted an EJ25 to it.
He runs a 091 2.0l Bus box with a super diff and some other mods and it has serious punch.
I'll try and get him to post on this or at least find his build thread on shoptalkforums.com or aussieveedubbers.com.
Believe me, it's a crazy car!
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Baja68
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Joined: June 08, 2007
Posts: 575
Location: Houston Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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That's a cool radiator set up you are doing. I am in Texas it's so hot here I did not want the radiator any where near me. I had thought about the location you chose and I also thought maybe between my rear roll cage above the rear seat. But I felt both would end up with heat from the radiator and noise from the fans would bother me.
I will be putting the radiator behind the engine inside the rear bumper. Only down side I see is it blocks the view of the engine. We will see what it looks like once I get the radiator next week.
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streetbuggy8804
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Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 526
Location: Long Beach, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Nice I put the hood scoop in, I anticipate that it will get plenty of airflow. If the flow isn't adequate I will also incorporate a scoop of sorts in the roll cage to direct airflow down to the other scoop. What are your plans for the fuel tank? Are you gonna use a surge tank? |
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surfbeetle
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bruces
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Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 125
Location: sudbury ontario
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
For radiator there is a JEEP CHEROKEE model (sorry don't have the year) that is about 10-11 inches tall and about 24 inches wide... It will mount vertically above trans axle and under back package deck of FG buggy body... Electric cooling fans are a must, but no problem... One of my friends is running a subie with Cherokee radiator at auto cross events and street driving and nobody has a clue its a water cooled motor.... HE is also running Megasquirt for ECU as it was a whole lot simpler to build new harness and wire in the MS then revamp stock harness and try to get ECU reflashed to proper ratios... With MS all you need is laptop and "tuner software"...
Dale |
I know the rad is completed on the op's car ,but for others that might want some info ,the jeep rad that dale is talking about is from a cherokee xj ,84 untill 90 would be set up for an external overflow bottle [I wouldnt use the jeep bottle,they had lots of issues with them ],90 and newer has a rad cap in the rad . |
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petew
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Joined: November 23, 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Andy P wrote: |
I really need to show my brother this thread.
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Hi all. I'm Andy's bro. here is my buggy...
| Quote: |
| If others are in the process of there buggy suby conversion feel free to put tips and info in. |
Happy to help. I had a long build site but it went when geocities was removed years back (thanx Yahoo NOT). I've looked over what you are doing and mostly I think it looks pretty good. Sump is a good height. The kenedy stuff is pretty good, etc.
There is one area where I think you're in for some heartache if you continue on your present course... The radiator. Now it's your car and you can do as you wish, but I'd suggest you totally rethink what you are doing with it. Coz I'm pretty certain that in Texas it will overheat, regularly. I'll show you what I did and then you can reflect on that if you like. I'll also make a few comments re making your design work somewhat better.
What I did; Firstly I stuck it (stock EJ25 rad) at the back fo the car where I thought it would get plenty of air like this...
Due to DOT rules over here we have to cover hot things hence the beetle decklid. Upon driving the car I found it was fine in traffic, but on the freeway at 60-70mph the temp slowly crept up over 100degC (subarus shouldn't get hotter than about 95degC, Ej25DOHCs especially). I put some telltail tapes on the car and my buddy drove beside me on the freeway to see where the air went and we found... it didn't. There is a huge dead spot at the back of the car where the air should be going to cooling the rad.
So I came up with No.2
I boxed the rad in, had a fan shroud made for it. Then I made a scoop up out of fibreglass and sealed it all together as best as possible.
A friend helped me with the sums for the area of the scoop. Apparently the rad needs to have 40% of it's surface area open to a "laminar" air flow. This setup worked OK, mostly, but again on the freeway things were not ideal. In cross winds or on hot days, the temp would routinely get up to 95degC and the fans would come on.
I also had dramas at gymkhanas I do in the car. The box was good when moving, but sitting still it tended to warm up faster and cool down slower. In the end I got sick of it all and did what every car manufacturer in the world does...
Front mounted Radiator
I then build a new bar to go across the front of the car with a stainless steel skidplate under it.
I have to say, like ex-smokers I'm pretty anti rear-mount rads. Not because they can't work, they can... well sort of, but front mounts work SOOOO much better. Like night and day difference. So I'd suggest that you pull the rad back out of the back, fill that nasty hole up and start measuring the front of the car for the rad and tuck your pipes up under the guards like I did. If you do this, the car WILL stay cool even in 100DegF weather and traffic.
Now, if you MUST leave it in the back, then there are some option available to you. First up, the box needs to be sealed and the opening between the rad and the box needs to be bigger. If it were me I'd make it the same size as the rad core. I'd also add another fan and make sure both were part of a fan shroud so that hot air that comes out of the rad can't circle back round through the core and half the efficiency of the fans. Once you've done that, you need to do two things;
1. cut some scoops into the sides of the body supplying air to the box effectively. These scoops combined need to be a minimum of 40% of the rad core surface area. These scoops to (as much as possible) to be exposed to an uneffected air stream (from the front of the car).
2. find a way of creating a vacuum at the back of the car to draw the hot air out (which is how all new cars work now). This is where my brain starts to run out of ideas. There is a way to do this but it's pretty complex and could involve things like boxing the engine in and running some of defuser underneath to create a vacuum. Look at trophy trucks and Dakar rally racers and you'll get the idea.
Now you can see why I say the front mount is easier.
Course you could just suck it and see if it works. It might be 60% ok, it might be a lot less. Anyhow, good luck with it. If I can help you anymore let me know. I'm not on here much, but you can email me if you like. |
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petew
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streetbuggy8804
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Joined: August 25, 2009
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Location: Long Beach, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
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The brains o the operation.
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didget69
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Location: Capital, North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'll ditto the comment that you won't have sufficient airflow across the radiator... looks like you're going to be passing air through only 1/4th of the radiator at best.
bryan
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didget69
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Location: Capital, North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
HE is also running Megasquirt for ECU as it was a whole lot simpler to build new harness and wire in the MS then revamp stock harness and try to get ECU reflashed to proper ratios... With MS all you need is laptop and "tuner software"...
Dale |
... no 'ECU reflash issues' with using stock Subaru ECM. None. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.
What ratios are you referring to? Tire diameter & VSS?? The VSS can be defeated - www.enginewiring.com
http://enginewiring.com/catalog.htm > Subaru Vehicle Speed Sensor Simulator - "This simulator can be used to eliminate the need for a mechanical V.S.S on most Subaru engines when using a VW style transaxle. Eliminates the malfunction code issued by the ECM by providing it a proper looking V.S.S signal.
No moving parts to fail or fly off like the old "magnets and a reed switch system".
Wire it in and tuck it inside the split loom of the harness and your done once and for all."
Subaru - Factory Harness Modification:
All Series Through 2002 $495.00
Price includes process of secondary harness that incorporates the alternator on some models.
These second harnesses will be returned much smaller.
V.S.S. Simulator included and installed with this conversion.
Again - how many have used the Stinger/MS/Haltech/etc.... straight outta the box? What does chassis dyno tuning time cost?
bnc
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streetbuggy8804
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Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 526
Location: Long Beach, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| According to outfronts and all the research that I have done, the stinger comes tuned out of the box. Only tuning necessary is if you wanna adjust something. |
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