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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 12415
Location: Eugene, OR
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Did you read Technical Carburetor #101 & #102 etc at www.aircooled.net for a little knowledge? John is there to help you if you'd ask him. He knows his distributors too!
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http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500 |
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah Mike I've been reading them so I can tune my brain to get some more knowledge on them. My grandpa just came over and looked at the car (he worked on VWs in my town for around 30 years, so some of the things he said I took into consideration as well). So I'm going to be making some more adjustments and changing some things up a little bit to see if some things will get ironed out. I'll update everyone when progress has been made! |
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Alrighty so I made the swap from the EMPI carbs and the 009 distributor to the solex carbs and vacuum advance distributor and now it runs even worse. I'm guessing that its either still not getting enough fuel, or something else is wrong. Now when we try to give it gas, it bogges out and there is a loud gurgle and popping and weird noises. We're going to re-jet all 4 carbs and see whats going on, but as of now we're stumped. |
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Its been awhile seeing as how I got school and other things, so its going along relatively slowly. I got new engine hanger mounts courtesy of Brent. But now I need to find a distributor. I don't want to use the 009, so I took some pictures of the other disty that the car came with.
This is the distributor..clearly. Uhh so There is a ground wire (see picture below) that was not being grounded anywhere, but I think I found the spot where it needs to go. Does it ground to the spot on the breaker plate above the spring (judging by the picture)? We found there we were not getting spark in the distributor so we found that the be the culprit. Also, the part number for this has 3 different things, it reads: JUR 4 , 0 231 137 017 , 311 905 205 G
So with this I'm assuming this is a JUR 4 Distributor? Any feedback on these? I have dual port, EMPI 34 EPC Carbs and I was just planning on plugging one vacuum port on the carb and then running the vacuum advance line to the other carb. Any feedback on that would be appreciated.
Here is the ground wire I'm talking about.
The ground wire is too short, so I was thinking about just getting a longer one and saudering it to the spot that I think it needs to be grounded to.
Any feedback or help is appreciated guys, thank you so much  This is all I need to finally be able to drive this bad boy. |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 12415
Location: Eugene, OR
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: | Your 205G should run fine with your 34's. Getting the 34's setup is the hard part. I think you'll want vacuum from both carbs or intake manifolds with a tee for supplying vacuum to the distributor. Aircooled.net is one source for advice/parts.
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
Thank for the info Mike, so I could just T off the vacuum line running from both carbs? I was thinking that, but I'm going to read up on the link you provided. |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 12415
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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You will get better vacuum by drilling/tapping your intake manifolds. That is how VW did it.
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http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500 |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 10609
Location: Kimball, Mi
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: | | Or, you could get an SVDA distributor from them. It'll work better with those carbs. |
I was thinking of that distributor as well, I'm just a little pinched on money at the moment  All I'm trying to do is get it running and drive-able so I can satisfy my needs, and then I was going to spring for a better distributor and Bob you took the words right out of my mouth because thats the one I was thinking. I'd still have to either tap the manifolds or just T off the lines though right? Since its still a vacuum advance. |
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Bobnotch
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Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| qoopwn wrote: | | Bobnotch wrote: | | I don't think your Webers are installed backwards, they look right to me. Things like jetting, the wrong type of gaskets (using metal, instead of paper), and timing (since you've got an 009, that needs to be timed to 30 degrees BTDC at 3000 rpms, and letting the idle fall where it will) all effect how the engines, and how good it runs. There's also the dreaded 009 flat spot that comes in around 1200 to 1500 rpms, which you might be noticing. Also, if you're trying to time the 009 to stock specs, it won't run worth a damn. |
Okay Bob so what I have is the 009 distributor? I think I'm experiencing all the bad things that come with it, and I was trying to time it to the timing mark it says in the book but I guess since you mentioned it thats where it could be going wrong. I think I'm going to pop in my other distributor right now, and it has a vacuum advance so maybe that will be better and easier to time and all of that. Only problem is the the vacuum lines go from one carb to another, and we cant find another vacuum port. Where would we hook up the vacuum advance on the distributor? I'll take some pictures in a bit. Thanks everyone for your help. |
Since you already have the 009, why not try it. Set it up like I mentioned above. Contact Brian Fye (by PM) to help you dial it in, as he knows how to really make them work for next to nothing. You really need to add a balance pipe to the manifolds, as that will help the engine run better. Look at all of the other dual single throat carb combo's, and you'll see every one of them has one, or is running rough. It even came stock from VW with one, even on single port engines.
The better ICT kits (like CB Performances), have a port on both carbs just for vacuum advance applications. That's 1 of the reasons I recommend their kit. Others include, manifolds drilled for a balance tube (complete with fittings and clamps), proper jetting, steel hexbar linkage, re-useable filter elements (similar to K&N's), and a 5 page installation manual (with trouble shooting guide).
Don't try to use manifold vacuum to run the distributor, as it'll always be on. It needs to be from a ported source. Look at the throttle butterfly area of your carbs, and see IF theirs a port on yours. If not, then you're screwed. 
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120 |
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: | | qoopwn wrote: | | Bobnotch wrote: | | I don't think your Webers are installed backwards, they look right to me. Things like jetting, the wrong type of gaskets (using metal, instead of paper), and timing (since you've got an 009, that needs to be timed to 30 degrees BTDC at 3000 rpms, and letting the idle fall where it will) all effect how the engines, and how good it runs. There's also the dreaded 009 flat spot that comes in around 1200 to 1500 rpms, which you might be noticing. Also, if you're trying to time the 009 to stock specs, it won't run worth a damn. |
Okay Bob so what I have is the 009 distributor? I think I'm experiencing all the bad things that come with it, and I was trying to time it to the timing mark it says in the book but I guess since you mentioned it thats where it could be going wrong. I think I'm going to pop in my other distributor right now, and it has a vacuum advance so maybe that will be better and easier to time and all of that. Only problem is the the vacuum lines go from one carb to another, and we cant find another vacuum port. Where would we hook up the vacuum advance on the distributor? I'll take some pictures in a bit. Thanks everyone for your help. |
Since you already have the 009, why not try it. Set it up like I mentioned above. Contact Brian Fye (by PM) to help you dial it in, as he knows how to really make them work for next to nothing. You really need to add a balance pipe to the manifolds, as that will help the engine run better. Look at all of the other dual single throat carb combo's, and you'll see every one of them has one, or is running rough. It even came stock from VW with one, even on single port engines.
The better ICT kits (like CB Performances), have a port on both carbs just for vacuum advance applications. That's 1 of the reasons I recommend their kit. Others include, manifolds drilled for a balance tube (complete with fittings and clamps), proper jetting, steel hexbar linkage, re-useable filter elements (similar to K&N's), and a 5 page installation manual (with trouble shooting guide).
Don't try to use manifold vacuum to run the distributor, as it'll always be on. It needs to be from a ported source. Look at the throttle butterfly area of your carbs, and see IF theirs a port on yours. If not, then you're screwed. |
Wow thanks for all the information Bob. Regarding the 009, we tried timing it to those specs and it still runs like it use to, maybe its just a faulty 009.  But regarding the carbs, I'm almost 100% sure that the ports on the carbs are for the vacuum advance. I'm fairly confident that it is indeed the correct ports for a vacuum advance distributor. I'll take some pictures of the carbs and where the ports are and everything are, but the carbs are already on the car and we're going to try and fire it up here soon, so I won't be able to take the carbs off but I'll see what I can do as far as quality. The only thing I need to do is figure out where the ground wire connects on the disty. Bob thanks again for the info, I'll go snap some photos right now. |
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qoopwn
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Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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So the blue plug is where the vacuum port is, the port doesn't go into any type of chamber or anything in the carb, it stays in the casting of the carb..if that makes any sense.
Another view.
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Fullerton'71
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Joined: October 27, 2009
Posts: 209
Location: Azusa, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Nice fasty. I don't know how it is with t3's, but over in the bus forum we have a saying. "Change your fuel lines". 
Have fun with your fasty. I'm jealous of it.
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 10609
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| qoopwn wrote: |
So the blue plug is where the vacuum port is, the port doesn't go into any type of chamber or anything in the carb, it stays in the casting of the carb..if that makes any sense. |
The blue plugged port is your vacuum take off (to the distributor), so you're good to go on that. Use the left carb to run the distributor.
You see those lumps on the sides of the manifolds? Those need to be drilled and tapped for a balance pipe (1 per side). With them plugged like they are, you have a really hard time getting the single throat carb to balance well (both sides matching at low revs while it's running).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120 |
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: | | qoopwn wrote: |
So the blue plug is where the vacuum port is, the port doesn't go into any type of chamber or anything in the carb, it stays in the casting of the carb..if that makes any sense. |
The blue plugged port is your vacuum take off (to the distributor), so you're good to go on that. Use the left carb to run the distributor.
You see those lumps on the sides of the manifolds? Those need to be drilled and tapped for a balance pipe (1 per side). With them plugged like they are, you have a really hard time getting the single throat carb to balance well (both sides matching at low revs while it's running). |
Bob thank you so much I appreciate all the knowledge and information. The drilling and tapping will be done within the next few days and hopefully I get this bad boy running with no stuttering and flat lining and all that crappy stuff. Again, thanks to everyone who helped! I'll keep you guys posted on what I do next, and I'll take some pictures of the drilling and everything.
To do list:
-Buy 2 knew oil shocks up front, 2 new gas shocks in the back (?)
-Fix some dents in the front metal under the bumper
-new white wall tires (any help on sizing and type of tire would be awesome)
-paint paint and more paint.
-installing the motor hanger mount things
-readjusting rear brakes. |
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qoopwn
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Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Running into a bit of a problem with the distributor. So we get the compression stroke to go off at TDC #1, and when we look at the rotor on the disty its pointing to #3. We've done it 3 times now, TDC #1 and the rotor still points to #3, so I'm assuming the disty is either not compatible with a type 3 or we're just doing something wrong and overlooking something? Any help would be appreciated. We have the disty installed correctly because it only fits in one with with the notches it has, I'm thinking it might be a type 1 distributor or something. |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 12415
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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An engine will run with the rotor pointing in any direction as long is it pointing @ #1. Wire your cap to match your rotor.
_________________
http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500 |
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Brent
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Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 986
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| qoopwn wrote: | | Running into a bit of a problem with the distributor. So we get the compression stroke to go off at TDC #1, and when we look at the rotor on the disty its pointing to #3. We've done it 3 times now, TDC #1 and the rotor still points to #3, so I'm assuming the disty is either not compatible with a type 3 or we're just doing something wrong and overlooking something? Any help would be appreciated. We have the disty installed correctly because it only fits in one with with the notches it has, I'm thinking it might be a type 1 distributor or something. |
Do you have the Brown Bentley? Fig. 23-5. You've got it right, see the notch in the distributor? The rotor should point to it at TDC #1. You probably just need to swap your wires around. Like this:
1 4
2 3
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Bobnotch
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Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Brent wrote: | | qoopwn wrote: | | Running into a bit of a problem with the distributor. So we get the compression stroke to go off at TDC #1, and when we look at the rotor on the disty its pointing to #3. We've done it 3 times now, TDC #1 and the rotor still points to #3, so I'm assuming the disty is either not compatible with a type 3 or we're just doing something wrong and overlooking something? Any help would be appreciated. We have the disty installed correctly because it only fits in one with with the notches it has, I'm thinking it might be a type 1 distributor or something. |
Do you have the Brown Bentley? Fig. 23-5. You've got it right, see the notch in the distributor? The rotor should point to it at TDC #1. You probably just need to swap your wires around. Like this:
1 4
2 3 |
Or the distributor drive dog on the distributor was put on 180* out. A friend of mine ran into that before, and the car just wouldn't run with a different distributor.  He never figured it out, until I mentioned it to him.
Most of the time this happens, because the engine builder is used to building T-1 motors, and puts in the distributor drive gear set up for a t-1, rather than the t-3 position (60* different). Then the engine doesn't run worth a crap, The mechanic says to take off the FI, and put on carbs, but they don't help fix the real issue, and now it barely runs, so the PO sells it, then the next guy is scratching his head trying to get it to run right.  Sound about right Tram? Then he gets on the forum, asks all sorts of questions, but still doesn't get the right answer until he's thrown a bunch of money at it, and the FI is long gone. 
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120 |
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qoopwn
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Posts: 176
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Alright guys, I'm going out to try everything you guys mentioned. I'm have the wiring right on the cap, so I think I'm going to try Bobs idea, seeing as how the rotor points to number 3 when it should be pointing to number 1, so with a 180* turn..it should be perfect...in theory. Wish me luck. |
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