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larryvance66
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Location: Virginia
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 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: Engine build on the cheap! |
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OK, if your one of those "Do it right or don't do it at all" die hards, please stop here and go back. But if you want to build or rebuild a motor and think you don't have the tools or know how, then this thread is for you.  First a little back story. I bought a Baja for $100 that was dead from cancer. The motor had been sitting out doors for several years and the PO said it ran when he parked it. I could tell from the dipstick there was some water in the block. I disassembled it and found it was saveable.  Everything isn't like new but measured out well enough to use with only the addition of a new set of bearings and a gasket kit. $85 total. Well that was already $85 OVER my budget so the rest has to come free. Here is the re-assembly for anyone who cares to join me.
First get a book. Here's a good one:
Please excuse my Camera Phone pics but they will have to do.
Next clean your case.
When you clean your case don't forget the oil relief valves. This one is an early case and only has one. Later cases have two. These buggers can be tough to get out. I use a hammer and my least favorite screw driver for this job.
If you didn't say a few four letter words getting the cover off you will when you try to get the piston out. Here is my little tric to remove these stubborn little pieces. A thread tap or properly sized ez out will do the job!
More to come. Let me know if you find this interesting or helpful. I like feedback!
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drscope
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Joined: February 19, 2007
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Man, you got a book, things are clean AND you even measured stuff!
What kind of cheap rebuild is this?
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larryvance66
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Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's a 1600SP being built on a 1500 HO case.
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Next we need to get our new bearing on the crankshaft. Most people take it to a shop and have the gears pressed off. With my budget we're doing it ourselves. First remove the lock ring:
A gear puller will barely get ahold of the gear, so to keep from damaging the edges of the teeth heat it with a propane/soldering torch for a minute to help expand the gear and relive some of the interference fit:
Now put on your bearing and replace the gears with the use of heat and a punch used carefully working your way around the gear to ensure it is going on straight:
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Now our crank is ready and we are going to get the case ready. The distributer drive gear end play needs checking when reinstalled. Looking for .020 to .040in. and don't need to add a shim unless we measure over .050:
Now we install the distributor with the #1 TDC mark as you see below:
Install your crank and cam bearings, your lifters and the "O" ring gaskets on the main bearing studs:
Now we can install the crank and cam. Holding the crank by the #1 and #2 rods will ensure your distributor timing is correct. You line up the marks on the cam and crank gears to get the valve train timed correctly.
Now checcck all your bearings to see that the bearing studs are in their holes. If not you'll pinch your bearing when the case halves come together and the crank will not turn smoothly.
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cannonfodder4j
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Joined: October 21, 2010
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Location: Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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hey larryvance awesome thread keep it up! im starting on a 63 this coming week. its gonna be my first engine rebuild so this is great with all the pics. do you think thats the best book for bug stuff? i wanted to get one but some people are saying go with john muirs idiots guide while others are saying haynes? so im not sure. whatd you suggest?
thanks and keep it up! 
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Cannon. I like the Hayne's book myself. The one I refer to is just on the engine and it leaves out some of the fine points. There is alot more info in the Hayne's manuals. I never really cared for the idiot books but they are a little more friendly to read. I'll get back to this tomorrow. It's getting late for this guy. 
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johnnypan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| larryvance66 wrote: | Now our crank is ready and we are going to get the case ready. The distributer drive gear end play needs checking when reinstalled. Looking for .020 to .040in. and don't need to add a shim unless we measure over .050:
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Ya better put that little shim in there,its main purpose is to keep the steel driveshaft from eating into the magnesium case |
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Johnyboy your right. Two shims required on Type 1-3 engines. Only one on Type 4. They are riight under the feeler guages if you look closely. 
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Zundfolge1432
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Joined: June 13, 2004
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Location: working on a pre 68 type 2
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| larryvance66 wrote: | Next we need to get our new bearing on the crankshaft. Most people take it to a shop and have the gears pressed off. With my budget we're doing it ourselves. First remove the lock ring:
A gear puller will barely get ahold of the gear, so to keep from damaging the edges of the teeth heat it with a propane/soldering torch for a minute to help expand the gear and relive some of the interference fit:
Now put on your bearing and replace the gears with the use of heat and a punch used carefully working your way around the gear to ensure it is going on straight:
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I like that book you are using, plenty of pics ... About the cheap aspect
maybe you skipped the detail about evaluating the case measuring align boring and determining thrust cut as well as internal and external dimensions on bearings, this cannot be fudged ...
Here's a money saving idea thats even cheaper than that gear puller -> when removing gears from the crank place it in a bench vise in horzontal position then use a large dull punch on the #3 main to walk the gears off the shaft. You will be using a large hammer and you will ruin the used bearing but your hammer never touchs the crank, bearing material is soft ... Also makes for excellent arobic excersize....Also if you have removed the cyl head case studs you can use a large phone book in lieu of an engine stand, tilt the left half and prop at 45 deg angle.. This is true poor boy engineering and it works. Good Luck and keep this project going. |
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johnnypan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| larryvance66 wrote: | Now we can install the crank and cam. Holding the crank by the #1 and #2 rods will ensure your distributor timing is correct. You line up the marks on the cam and crank gears to get the valve train timed correctly.
Now checcck all your bearings to see that the bearing studs are in their holes. If not you'll pinch your bearing when the case halves come together and the crank will not turn smoothly. |
You didnt say anything about fitting the cam gear and crank gear,how to check for interference and what to do if there is.
Also prefitting and marking the main bearings so you hit the dowels dead on...but thats part of the case inspection..... which you passed over Larryboy |
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zundapp
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: | | larryvance66 wrote: |
Now put on your bearing and replace the gears with the use of heat and a punch used carefully working your way around the gear to ensure it is going on straight:
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Here's an even cheaper way to install the gears. As per the Bentley, heat the gears in oil to around 180º F. A laser thermometer is super handy here and tuna tin is just the right size. Pull the gear out of the oil at times and check it's temp with the Laser thermo. When it's hot enough it will just slide on the crank like butter on a hot biscuit. No pounding, but you gotta be quick cuz as soon as it hits the crank it starts to shrink. |
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to see some of you guys are chiming in. The purpose of this thread is to try to take the fear out of the engine rebuild. It can be done by anyone and done cheaply. Please add any tricks to the trade you guys know. As for what I leave out, that is why I referred to the book. Don't try to do the rebuild by my thread only! And I did all appropriate engine measuring and checking and did not need thrust cut or line bore. Really the motor just needed cleaning due to sitting so long. I just couldn't put it back together without installing new bearings.
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You didnt say anything about fitting the cam gear and crank gear,how to check for interference and what to do if there is.
Also prefitting and marking the main bearings so you hit the dowels dead on...but thats part of the case inspection..... which you passed over Larryboy |
Johnny Boy, I think you missed the opening sentence of this thread!  Please go back and re-read! Thx!
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djkeev
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| larryvance66 wrote: | | Quote: | You didnt say anything about fitting the cam gear and crank gear,how to check for interference and what to do if there is.
Also prefitting and marking the main bearings so you hit the dowels dead on...but thats part of the case inspection..... which you passed over Larryboy |
Johnny Boy, I think you missed the opening sentence of this thread! Please go back and re-read! Thx! |
Wishful thinking larryvance66!! I can tell you from experience that Johnnypan will be here standing on the sidelines screaming foul! foul! foul! foul!!!! at every post you make. Put on your thick skin and anticipate it.
I must say he isn't necessarily wrong at all in what he says, as a matter of fact from years of reading his posts, he knows his stuff!
He just cannot get over the perceived "folly" of not doing it "correctly". Cannot fathom not having any money and having to do what one must do to get on the road.
He's done this a lot, he knows what works and he cannot change or vary from it. Not a bad thing at all, just not what you are looking for in this post.
You as a rebuilder on the cheap have to realize that the anticipated service life of this rebuild is most likely going to be very limited as compared to a "properly" rebuilt unit using quality used, remanufactured and new parts.
Dave
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1974 Super Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=rust+repair
Creating a 69 1/2 Ghia Convertible out of a 69 Coupe and a 70 Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
And the newest arrival!....... 86 Vanagon Westy!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537 |
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djkeev
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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What are your plans with the oil cooler? Try to clean it? Hope for the best and call it good, gambling that it isn't full of crap? Or pony up and either purchase a new one or have a radiator shop properly flush it of debris?
A dirty used oil cooler will kill a new rebuild faster than just about anything else.
Will you be pulling the oil galley plugs and flushing out the oil passages? Tapping and installed new plugs cost very little $$ but knowing the insides are CLEAN is priceless for peace of mind.
I guess if you don't have pipe taps, the answer will be no?
I guess you simply leave well enough alone and hope that there isn't a chunk of something in there.
An engine can be "rebuilt" on the cheap but there are compromises made and risks that must be taken.
Dave
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1974 Super Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=rust+repair
Creating a 69 1/2 Ghia Convertible out of a 69 Coupe and a 70 Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
And the newest arrival!....... 86 Vanagon Westy!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537 |
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Good points DJ. And I don't want to offend Johnnyboy. I just want him to understand that all the details are what keep many people from trying to attempt this on their own. I would like to show in a simple format what is involved in a re-build and hopefully give others with meager means and mechanical ability the confidence that they CAN do this! Now lets move along.
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djkeev
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larryvance66
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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So where was I....Oh yes, now that the crank and cam are in place we have checked all the bearings and made certain they are on their pins we put a little permatex sealent on the cam plug and install it on the left half of the case and then thinnly spread a little case sealant on all the mating surfaces. I use a Suzuki brand I had around from doing 2-stroke bikes.
Now carefully bring you two case halves together and watch your lifters stay in their places as you join the two halves. The case should go together without any resistance until you get to the dowels that align the two case halves. Keep a check that the crank turns freely as you bring the case halves together. If the crank becomes difficult to turn open it back up and look for the problem, Most likely you have a bearing off it's stud.
I missed a few pics here but the next steps are tightening all the case hardware and installing the oil pump. Follow the torqueing patterns and specifications in your book. DO follow the torque specs to a tee due to the fact the magnesium case will expand much more than the steele fasteners and the studs will pull when the engine gets warm leaving you with a pile of junk!
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djkeev
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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If you take some wire coat hangers, cut them to about 8 inches long. Bend them in a U then bend the tips ever so slightly like a J, the two J's will be facing each other ( ) imagine the parenthesis brackets are J's, one reversed. facing each other.
Now over pinch the U closed and gently spread the ends apart and slip the ends into the lifters where the pushrods set into them. Now you can tip the case almost 90 degrees and the lifters stay in place. Don't tip it 90 degrees though, just tip it enough to mate it with the other half. After it's mated, remove the lifter retainers and you're golden! Avoids much frustration from them falling out at the last instant!
Dave
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1974 Super Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=rust+repair
Creating a 69 1/2 Ghia Convertible out of a 69 Coupe and a 70 Convertible
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
And the newest arrival!....... 86 Vanagon Westy!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537 |
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