[On the Road Again] #1969Westfalia

[Kursive]

Well I've been out of town for a while, after the very busy / stressful / life changing holidays..
Moving forward! Saw this listing in the classifieds, and spoke with Billy from Anything VW today. Though I had been thinking about doing a rebuild myself, this looks awfully promising, with positive reviews to boot.
It says all German parts, and he specifically mentioned mahle bearings. He will be heading towards my bus' location next week, so if all goes as planned I'll have some friends drop the engine for him to pick up and rebuild
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1969 Westfalia Camper
M-Code

[ccpalmer]

[Kursive]

[Kursive]

Well now I'm on the fence about Single Carb vs. Dual Carb.

Running a Single Port, the guy building the engine says their is no real point to it; mostly just reducing MPG and reliability for minimal added power.

But from what I've read so far, seems Dual Carburetors can help increase torque and MPG, and burn cooler.. but then some people seem to think it's a lot of trouble to maintain a pair, yet others say it is set for a while if done right.

May just end up going with the Single Carb for a simple start, but as it's going to be my Daily Driver, I am a slightly worried I will be missing a big benefit.
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1969 Westfalia Camper
M-Code

[ccpalmer]

If you're unsure about the dual carbs I'd say wait. I'm tempted to go with them but between synching carbs, setting fuel pressure, proper crankcase/fuel tank breathing, paper air filters, brake booster lines, balance tubes and cutting my air filter stand I'm keeping on with my single carb. Someday maybe..

I hear the same thing about mpg dropping or raising from single to dual carbs... I'm sure a lot comes down to having a well balanced and designed engine from the ground up. With a 1600 I wouldn't think about duals but with my 1776 plus a few extras I'm a lot more tempted..
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'71 Westy

'77 Bay/rusty shed on wheels
--
Chris Palmer
Cocobolo Co., LLC
ccpalmer.com

[Desertbusman]

I wouldn't go duals on a single port. but on my 1600 dual port I love my baby Webers. Get excellent MPG which might be better than with the stock single carb, not sure, but it isn't worse.
If you want to do something for it then get headers. Also if your're doing an engine be sure and have it full flowed. If for nothing else at least to be able to run a filter. It's probably around $15 for the case port to be machined. When a case is apart is the time to do it. As far as the rest of the system you can do it later and plug the port in the meantime.
One thing on mine that I really like is the Engle W-100 bus cam. More pazzaz at the lower end. On a rebuild you replace the cam and lifters anyway so it's very little additional to go with a cam that produces a bit more torque.
Even the stock single carb is a hassle from time to time. With duals your are doubling the hassle. Tuning, lines, fittings, linkage, and everything. It is not a piece of cake living with duals. Even replacing plugs and other maintenance is a hassle. Staying stock is so much more simple.
Don't even consider an engine that isn't fully balanced. Dynamically and then the rods and pistons weight balanced. It's a big deal on a bus.
You should first study Tom Wilson's engine building book to be aware of what an engine build is all about. Then you will be a step ahead when you deal with a builder.
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The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.

[enjoispammy8]

where in socal are you?

be sure to heed DBM's advice. It's golden and he's never steered me wrong.
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1969 Westy, 1690cc. montana red and cloud white.
MY BUS MOVIE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poeSqYdYHws

[Kursive]

Yeah I'm thinking I'll stick with the Single Carb for now to avoid extra complications, especially on a stock engine.

Now full flowed, that is adding a hole to the case for an oil filter, right? I spoke to Billy about the full flowed and he said the dog house would help with that (cooling?); though it's more important for filtering the oil, no?
I'm not a big fan of the idea of drilling the case, but I'll insist he goes through with it if it's worth it, but what about one of these oil pump things? Same as full flowed?
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=195

As for location, usually in Yucaipa, just above Redlands, though I've been staying up in Monterey lately. Pretty cool video btw
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1969 Westfalia Camper
M-Code

[secretsubmariner]

Dude im loving the stars and snowflakes on the front. its really cool
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-Tony
1978 Champagne- "Lord Puber"- first love.
1978 Champagne- "Scuttlebutt"
1978 Deluxe Auto Westfalia- "Samsquantch"

[Kursive]

[Desertbusman]

Sounds wise on your single stock carb decision.

Fullflow has nothing to do with the fan shroud. Totally different topic. And a doghouse shroud uses a larger fan and much better engine cooling because the oil cooler doesn't block cylinder cooling and the heat from the cooler is directed outside of the engine compartment. Doghouse shroud and cooling only came on a '71 dual port engine. Evidently it can be installed on a single port engine. If you can swing it then do it as it's a great advantage.

With stock oiling the pump output goes directly to the internal oil galleries. With fullflow the oil leaves the pump, goes into the external filter and maybe an external cooler and then back into the engine oil galleries.
The common way most people do it is have a port drilled and tapped into the case at the oil gallery for the oil returning from the external goodies. Simple and easy to do. Then a full flow pump cover is used so the oil exits the pump. Additionally, a plug is put into the normal outlet side of the pump so oil can't take the original route. When rebuilding a T-1 you put in a new pump anyway so usually the vendor will provide a plug for that port and sometimes even install it in the pump. Simple. Then with a fullflow pump cover on it you just connect the pressure line to the pump cover. And a return line to the fitting in the drilled case port.
With CB's Maxi 3 pump and cover no new port or plug is used. Oil leaves and then returns into the pump and then on into the original case gallery. A drawback is the Maxi has smaller ports and many people think it's restrictive. We put one on a friends bus and then later an engine pro took it off and trashed it and did the conventional fullflow mod to the engine.
Two things- Either way, it is a pain and not real easy to get fittings and hoses to clear the moustache bar. But we do it anyway. The other thing is every other type of engine has an oil filter. It is a real good thing to do. And it adds more oil to the puny stock system and it also will do a bit of cooling. Great benefit with the greater amount of clean oil. Then later if you want to have additional available cooling you can add an external cooler to the system.
A couple people talked Spammy out of doing it saying a filter is unnecessary. Duh! If he ever has his engine apart again I'd think he will propably do it anyway.
Here is one of mine.

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The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.

[Kursive]

The drill sounds like it would be the best route, so I'll speak to the engine builder and ask him to drill that in for me. I suppose I'll have to find some parts to send him? Kit or pieces?

I'm hoping this build will be one to last me some time, minimum 5 years, so I'll be looking out for all these improvements for efficiency / longevity. Getting a list compiled of components to upgrade as I go, so trying to get the ones I need as it's built out of the way.
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1969 Westfalia Camper
M-Code

[VAVWFAN]

The engine pictured doesn't look like a buus engine (mustache bar etc). However, I too will be rebuilding a 69 non doghouse/SP engine. I will convert to doghouse cooler, but will keep SP heads. For the fullflow, it appear that the only thing necessary is the drilled hole in case, with brass fitting and the modified pump cocer with outlet nipple on it?????
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If it weren't for "last minutes;" -- nothing would ever get done!

[Desertbusman]

Engine pictured is mine and it is a bus case. Experienced engine builders and VW machine shops know how to do the port. Search and read. Cover isn't modified, it's a common fullflow pump cover.
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The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.

[Kursive]

Here are the things I know I need so far.. feel free to point me towards to superior setups

Schadek 26mm Oil Pump, 8mm Pump Studs,
Full Flow Oil Pump Cover, Cast Iron,
Steel Oil Pump Cover Plate,
Oil Pump Gasket, Oil Pump to Case and Cover,
12mm Oil Breather Hose,
Swivel Barb Hose Fitting -8 1/2,
-8 1/2NPT 90 degree fitting, also 2 x 45degree fittings,
8mm self sealing nut,
Amsoil Oil Filter Adapter..

Missing much? Maybe Berg Full Flow Cover would be better.
NVM. read through saw uselessness / risks of steel / cast iron.

EDIT: Got some of the things (fittings) from this Kit list. Maybe just get that?
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1969 Westfalia Camper
M-Code

[Desertbusman]

-The Shadek 26mm is good. Buy the pump from someone who will shove the plug in the outlet port.
-You have no need for the stock pump cover plate.
-Lot's of brands of fullflow pump covers. That one is probably OK. Only other issue is getting a less obtrusive size of outlet connection. There is very little room to get a fitting in there. I greatly prefer an aluminum cover instead of steel. Material thermal expansionsion rates match the aluminum Shadek pump body. You can very easily later on dress the gear surface flat again if desired. I'd rather have the cover wear instead of the pump gears. At the same time that Berg 241B cover will make it so much easier for you to get the oil line connected. It really will! A compact fitting and also compare how far the port portion sticks out from the cover. It is a big deal.
The other cover in you link Will be a pain on a bus. The one in my engine pic is a pain. (I did some other mods)
-Gaskets come with the pump.
-That hose is for the breather and not the oil lines.
-Those sealing nuts are good. You also want them on the generator pedestal.
-That's not an adapter you linked to. It's just a filter only. I don't know of anyone that uses that brand but it might be good.
-This is a filter adapter. You need one. They come in left, right, or straight. Left's the configuration I use. Also you can get them in different brands. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Oil-Filter-Adapter-Kit-Left-Side-Ports-p/3053bp.htm
-Forget your fitting selection for now. But it would be nice to use that swivel barb on at least one end of your 2 hoses.

In my gallery are some pics of my filter, adapter, and hoses. That's kind of a common way to do it. I'd highly recommend the Blue hose only. With push-on barbs only. Not crimped on hose assemblies. Aeromech (Gary) also uses the same hose. You can search his and my postings for more info relating to the hose.

This is the type of fitting you need in the new case port. http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_145&products_id=193 You can get that type at hardware stores. Berg machines off the corners for better fit. I grind off the corners. Might be good to read various bits of info Berg has on machining that port.
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The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.

[Kursive]

Geneburg Full Flow Kit

Found this; has nice Steel Braided Teflon hoses. It does have the cast iron Full Flow cover, but I think I can survive with the compromise for now (I hope she can), especially with the easier fitting. Also comes with the fittings..

GB 241B pump cover,
(4) GB 254 AN-8 fittings,
(1) GB 256-S AN-8 swivel,
(1) GB 259 90-degree fitting,
(1) GB 259CL 90-degree fitting for back into the block,
GB 251 HP1 Fram filter,
GB 267A plug for the pump,
GB 250 filter adapter,
and (2) GB 252-20" braided stainless steel covered AN-8 Teflon hose.
Hoses have the ends permanently swedged on the end of the Teflon tubing for a leak and blow out free installation.

Also, ADD-239B Oil Pressure Relief Cover Option? Not sure what this would do for me, but it seems the kit has what I would need for the builder to simply put it together I hope.

Though, mounting seems to be another thing, does the filter adapter mount itself to something (where..?), or do I need something else entirely..
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1969 Westfalia Camper
M-Code

[Desertbusman]

You're getting it figured out.

[Juancho]

Sorry, I am really late to this conversation, but I have owned a 71,72 (with dual carb 73 motor), 73 automatic, 75 (with 78 fi motor), 74 tin top westy, 84 vangon... Anyhow you get the point.

You definately want to stick with the type 1 motor, but dual port for sure. No point in getting a single ports even with splities imho. You can do a hell of a lot with the type 1. I would also recommend increasing displacement. 1776 is a great place to start. No question the type 4 is a far superior motor, but worth the cost differencial? Not sure. Out of all the busses I have owned, the 71 was far and a way my favorite. I loved having a type 1, which i knew i could build into a blown out 2ltr 200 hp beast if I wanted to. Good luck, and have fun.

[Kursive]

Would a dual port still be useful with a single carburetor? Haven't really looked up the benefits of a dual port, though would it be that easy to have the builder throw in? More reading for me

As for the Full Flow, where would this kit be best hitched at? I've seen some on the engine, some to the body; this would be something I would have to do after engine completed and returned? Suppose I would need measurements when I have the parts together..

Also, this does not have a 45 degree fitting, would that be better for the oil pump cover itself?
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1969 Westfalia Camper
M-Code