AEH EFI Project

[AEH]

I thought it might be best to start a separate thread and I'll just keep all my EFI questions here instead of cluttering up the forum with multiple posts.

First off, here is my plan. I have way over spent my budget fixing up my car. I just couldn't find a place to quit. So, I need to postpone my engine until fall after my busy season when I can replace my mad money stash. I plan to put a relatively mild (compared to some) 2110 in it, but I have a newly rebuilt 1641 that I picked up in some of my purchases that I am going to use for now.

It will never be easier to add EFI to it than it will be right now, so I'm gonna go ahead and put EFI on the 1641 now and then drop in the 2110 later. I already spoke to Mark at CB and he said it would require an injector change but I can live with that. The 40mm TB's should work on both. I do have a Mexican TB available just in case.

So here is the first question. What is the best way to return at the tank. I cant seem to find out how the stock system was plumbed. One thread I read referenced a "Y" instead of a T buy that may have been talking about the gas heater set-up. I cant remember, were there any FI standard beetles?

I don't want to run a "T" at the tank. I'd rather add a bung if necessary but what about using the factory vent at the tank. Would that spray in the tank create Issues with aeration of the fuel. I'm not sure if you could hear it but it seems like it might get annoying.

I was sanding down my tank and found a pinhole, so I plan to buy a new one instead of coating it. If there is a tank option with a return inlet already installed, who would have one?.

Thank you
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My 72 Baja http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492102
My EFI Thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=500337

[Dale M.]

If you are buying a new tank, just have a bung welded into it (for return) before you ever put fuel in it .....

Also have you looked at Megasquirt for your EFI?

Dale
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Lives his life vicariously through his own self...
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.

All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[75smith]

yes FI beetles fan 75-77(std)
find a 75-77 tank in the classifieds(might be a different tank size so you will need to make sure it will fit your application, but I'm pretty sure anything above 70 were the same dimensions)
the return for mine (if I remember correctly) was on the underside of the tank, separate from the outlet, and on the drivers side

how are you routing the return line? through the tunnel or along the underside of the pan?

[AEH]

Dale,

I haven't really looked into Megasquirt just due to the comments, mainly from the guys running it, that's it a little more complex than the CB system. (oops, did I just open that can of worms?) Call me lazy, but I don't want to know any more about it than what it takes to get it tuned in and running with as little trouble as possible. My buddy is an engine nut, not air cooled but a dirt track runner that understands engines and all their idiosyncrasy's. He's the kinda guy that puts nitrous on his four wheelers. He is going to help with the initial tuning and getting it going. I like the idea of phone support and the self learning mode. I'm not locked in yet but leaning CB so far.

75smith, Thanks, none of the retailers selling tanks seem to list an EFI 75-77 tank option. . They all sell a 68-77 or 68-74. It would be nice to find a FI tank and not have to braze it. I plan to run the lines inside the tunnel. Both in by the factory line up front and one out each frame horn in the back. Found some perfect grommets that fit a PCV valve on something that will be great to seal the through holes. About 3/4 OD and 3/8 ID and 1/2" long
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My 72 Baja http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492102
My EFI Thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=500337

[miniman82]

[Dale M.]

[AEH]

Thanks for the advice. I've read that comment before, a lot it seems, so there is obviously something to it. However, I just might end up being another "blind hog with an acorn" with your help.

I would imagine that inevitably I'll end up knowing a lot more about it than I really want to. Seems like that's always the way it goes. I will learn and do whatever it takes to get it properly tuned, it's just not one of those things I choose to focus on.

As an Engineer, it wont technically elude me, but when I contemplate it, it's just not something that appeals to me as fun. For me, EFI is a means to an end, not and end in itself. The destination, not the journey, if you will.. Who knows, I might even end up getting into it before it's all said and done with a little tutelage from the masters.

The CB system just seems to be simpler and adequate for my needs.
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My 72 Baja http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492102
My EFI Thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=500337

[Max Welton]

Then, as an engineer, you should start by first considering your requirements. What do you want out of FI that carbs would not give you?

Max
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"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.

[AEH]

Well, as me, I want Electronic Fuel Injection. I want instant cold starts, smooth cold idle, consistent operation over the range of the engine, the ability to change it without going to the parts store for jets, no flooding on rough terrain, no clogged jets, no carb rebuilds, to let it set for a month and jump in and go and the list goes on.

There will be those who are gonna say thats all possible with carbs as well. There are plenty of arguments on both sides of the equation and this thread is not to argue the virtues of either system. I have already spent a couple months considering my requirements and I will be going EFI.
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My 72 Baja http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492102
My EFI Thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=500337

[Max Welton]

Well, you want the same things I do from the finished system. The difference being that I enjoy working with the new system.

I went with Megasquirt to put that experience and final responsibility for the outcome in my own hands.

When you have questions (and you will) you will have one primary source of information, the vendor.

Max
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"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.

[Dale M.]

You also realize with a add on system "supplied out of the a box", will never have the same efficiency and tune ability and ease of use as a factory system..... UNLESS you plan to tinker with it a lot....

This ain't going to start and run and perform like your girl friends or wife's HONDA....

Have you been here yet?

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=23&sid=5901789cdfdc1aad29b96224251fd148

Dale
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Lives his life vicariously through his own self...
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.

All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[mcmscott]

The new CB system is easyas compared to other systems out there, you still have to understand how to program it to do what you want it to do, if your cold start iac program is off(for example) it won't idle the way you wan't it to when cold( maybe not hot iether) but its how YOU program it. If CB would offer ther system as a do it yourself system, with user responsibility, it would be great. I know that they have already tuned this ecu on 2 suby engines with multiple ignition setups

[AEH]

Yes I have and there is lots of information over there. Much more info on EFI. I have followed just about every link you have posted in similar threads. I end up reading about 3 to 4 hours a night searching for answers to my questions. My wife says she thinks I have a problem, either that or a girl friend with initials V.W.

I'm through the pan and body, just waiting for paint and finally turning my attention to the engine.
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My 72 Baja http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492102
My EFI Thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=500337

[Max Welton]

I'd be interested in seeing how you make out with it. Particularly in how well your desires match CB's claims and the actual experience of fitting it up to your car.

Please keep us posted.

Max
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"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.

[mark tucker]

well I worked on a guys car that had too much cam, heads&carb for the street,instaled a smaller cam but the massive intake ports were still too big for street & the big carb.after a month he wanted something done he could not drive it ,barly get it started most of the time,he knows squat about cars. I instaled a tbefi on it,did a quick tune driving down the street. and hid the controler under the dash where nobody could eff with it. he is happer than a pig in a dry sand box in the shade.(pigs dont realy like mud, and perfer dry in the shade)he drives the crap out of it.it is very mild mannerd and still hauls ass. so dont let somebody talk you out of the efi because "you "dont want to spend the time to fully understand it.thats kinda like going out and buying a new $400000.00 car and riping the efi off and cobbing a carb onto it.

[miniman82]

[mark tucker]

simple as R&R. what is different in putting a efi on a vw vs a chevy,ford,mopar? longer wires??the efi dosent know wtf it is on.and it dosent matter.

[Onceler]

If you have the money, go for it. The beauty of the CB system is that you don't have to be an EFI expert to enjoy the benefits of EFI. Just be willing to work through any troubleshooting issues that may come and you may have to wait a little for solutions due to the fact that CB is a big company with a lot going on, but I'm sure they'll take care of you.
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1967 Beetle
Megasquirt/turbo believer

[Max Welton]

Everybody spouting off about the CB system who hasn't actually installed one should probably pipe down so we can hear some someone with first hand experience.

[modok]

Mark was talking about installing throttle body injection on a v-8