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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: Heater Booster Fan (wiring trouble) |
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Hi guys,
For the past couple days I have been trying to figure out the wiring for the heater booster fan in the engine bay in my 72. I can't seem to get power back there at all, but I know the fan does run. I have been looking at this wiring diagram... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_1972_wiring.jpg
But im still trying to figure out what each wire/component does? The heater fan should only turn on when the red levers are all the way down, correct? Does the engine need to be on as well?
Could there be a contact missing by the red levers up front that is causing my lack of power?
I apologize for my newbishness here, I'm just trying to figure out why there is like a whole unit back there to run this fan, rather than just a power wire and a ground? I will post a picture that will help you guys know what I'm asking about.
Thanks in advance,
Cam
PS I've done some searches on the topic but havent really found the info that I am looking for. Feel free to link me to something if you find it though. _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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Chris_914 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 344 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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The relay listed as j14 controls the blower. The red wire is power from the battery via the starter lug, when activated it connects to the yellow/black wire on the blower.
The relay gets its power from the blue wire that goes to the voltage regulator. It is only hot when the engine is running and the regulator is putting out positive voltage from the blue wire. The brown/white goes up to the lever in the dash and connects to ground when the heater lever is full engaged.
Engine running, alt light out, and heater lever fully engaged should power the heater blower. |
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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Heres the picture if it helps at all!
Thanks again! _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Chris_914 wrote: |
The relay listed as j14 controls the blower. The red wire is power from the battery via the starter lug, when activated it connects to the yellow/black wire on the blower.
The relay gets its power from the blue wire that goes to the voltage regulator. It is only hot when the engine is running and the regulator is putting out positive voltage from the blue wire. The brown/white goes up to the lever in the dash and connects to ground when the heater lever is full engaged.
Engine running, alt light out, and heater lever fully engaged should power the heater blower. |
Beat my post with the picture! That is very helpful thank you! _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I think I'm grasping whats happening here, but I still a have a few questions...
When should the red wire be hot?
And when it is hot, all that does is make a connection between the two ends of the yellow/black wire? _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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Chris_914 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 344 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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If the fuse is good, the red is always hot (the battery postive is connected to the same lug on the starter). It is switched to the yellow/black when the relay is activated. |
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Chris_914 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 344 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Relays tend to be universal in nature, meaning the same relays can be used for many different applications. In this case if I had to guess, the activated end of the relay has two connections that become hot and they bridged them with the yellow/black wire. The relay probably has a schematic on the side that shows this. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50349
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I find it much easier to use the new current track style diagrams instead of the earlier ones. From this diagram you can easily see that it is a double pole relay and the the red wire is hot the whole time.
tp://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_7374a.jpg
The aux fan is current track 4 and 5. |
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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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I just went out and tested all those wires. I couldn't get any reading on on any of the wires. I test them all with the engine off and the key in position 2 and then with the engine running, and then with the engine running and the red levers all the way down. Could the relay be bad??
Also I popped the fuse out of the red wire and just tested from the metal inside the fuse housing and still nothing.
Please let me know if you have any suggestions.
Thanks,
Cameron _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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If you have no power at the red wire nothing will work, it goes to the battery terminal on the starter, maybe you should start there first. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hi! So after working on a few other problems on the bus, I'm back to trying to figure out the booster fan...
Quote: |
If you have no power at the red wire nothing will work, it goes to the battery terminal on the starter, maybe you should start there first. |
Busdaddy, I think you're right, 'cause if you look at my starter here...
You can see that the red wire in the box isn't attached anywhere... So I assume that that is the red wire from the booster fan relay. Where on the starter do I attach that wire??
But I think we have more problems! Because today, I was looking at the back of the heater levers under the dash and found that the white wire, attached to the ground on the back of the switch was simply a loose end. I doesn't go anywhere.
Should this be where the brown/white attaches?? _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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That red wire goes on the post the battery cable attaches to and that terminal on the lever is indeed where the brown white wire goes.
Where does that wire with the yellow connector go?, somethings funny on your starter. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ok!! I connected the red wire to the starter, and now have power to the red wire over in the engine bay. So now I guess all I should have to do is connect the brown/white wire, but it seems to be missing up front... hmm... where would it be coming from??
As for that wire... It may go to my second battery or the marine switch that connects the second battery? I'm not totally sure, but I had my bus mechanic put in the second battery as well as a new starter about 2 months ago. I think that probably has something to do with it... _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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cambarner Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 101 Location: Southern Maine
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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GOT IT!!!! WOOHOO! Thanks Busdaddy! _________________ 1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus' |
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dubluvv Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2007 Posts: 808 Location: Old Town, Maine
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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OK, going to ad my problems to this thread. '76 Westy.
Here's what I have for wiring...
I assume the blue wire coming out of the harness is supposed to connect to the relay, yes?
Black wire coming from relay goes to NEG side of coil. Correct or no?
Currently, the fan is not hooked up. Where do the two wires coming from the fan connect to?
Also, what color should the wire that hooks to the lever switch (on dash) be? I've been looking for a brown/white to no avail. I have a blue/white just hanging, is it that one?
Thanks
Mitch _________________ -Mitch
'76 Westy 2.0L FI "Lucy" Project Thread
'84 Rabbit L Diesel - Potential Greasecar Project
[quote="chazz79"]"Aw honey, I got another one of those bay-bus things on my shoe again...dammit"[/quote] |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50349
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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dubluvv wrote: |
I assume the blue wire coming out of the harness is supposed to connect to the relay, yes?
Black wire coming from relay goes to NEG side of coil. Correct or no?
Currently, the fan is not hooked up. Where do the two wires coming from the fan connect to?
Thanks
Mitch |
The aux fan is in current tracks #4-6 of this diagram while the ignition circuit is in current track #69-71.
Click diagram to enlarge |
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dubluvv Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2007 Posts: 808 Location: Old Town, Maine
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
dubluvv wrote: |
I assume the blue wire coming out of the harness is supposed to connect to the relay, yes?
Black wire coming from relay goes to NEG side of coil. Correct or no?
Currently, the fan is not hooked up. Where do the two wires coming from the fan connect to?
Thanks
Mitch |
The aux fan is in current tracks #4-6 of this diagram while the ignition circuit is in current track #69-71.
Click diagram to enlarge |
I will admit, I do not know how to read a wiring diagram. _________________ -Mitch
'76 Westy 2.0L FI "Lucy" Project Thread
'84 Rabbit L Diesel - Potential Greasecar Project
[quote="chazz79"]"Aw honey, I got another one of those bay-bus things on my shoe again...dammit"[/quote] |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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The current track numbers are in the yellow line near the bottom, the fan is V4 and the dash switch is E1, the relay is J14. The wire colors are shown as well as the terminal numbers if they matter, all you have to do is use your imagination regarding physical location of the components and wire lengths. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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See if this helps:
Important wires highlighted. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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