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minsk
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Rocky Mountain Westy
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minsk
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Rocky Mountain Westy
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, So I still don't get it. One is 2wd and one is 4wd.
What do you need to know?
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minsk
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Phishman068
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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They are fundamentally different in almost every regard.
It is not simply a nose cone and able to bolt on. It is not possible to convert an 091 (2wd) to an 094 (Syncro).
Remember that the 2wd is a true 4 speed and the 4wd is technically a 5 speed.
You can put a 2wd into a syncro and run it as a 2wd, but even that is easier said than done. The transmission has to be spaced down and mounted in a different position, some fabrication is required. |
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minsk
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crazyvwvanman
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:45 am Post subject: |
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The gearing is identical in the 4 forward gears you would normally use. Reverse is much lower in the Syncro trans(same as G gear).
Lots of people have used a 2wd tranny as a 'temporary' fix when a Syncro tranny needs to come out. It is too bad that some fabricator/vender doesn't sell a simple kit to do this as it would be great for certain situations. A Syncro owner broken down on the road with a bad tranny could get up and running more quickly without waiting for an expensive Syncro tranny rebuild and without paying 2 way expedited shipping.
The above gearing comments are for comparing a wbx 4 speed to a wbx Syncro trans from USA/CA models.
Mark
| minsk wrote: | hahahaha.. i said it was a dumb question
other than the nose on the 4wd how do they differ...is the gearing way diff?
can the end be swapped out
could the 90 with 60k on it be made to work on the syncro |
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FrankenSubySyncro
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Surprisingly many of the parts are the same with the exception of the low gear housing parts and the pinion shaft. Maybe the mainshaft also?
The non-locking syncro trans uses the same differential case as a 2wd. The only difference is the hole for the locking pin and sleeve. I converted a non locker to a locker using a different case. Many of the part numbers start with 091 which is the same for a 2wd. If the part# starts with 094 then it is syncro only.
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edgood1
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I beg to differ with some of the above comments.
A 2wd transmission can indeed be made to work in a syncro. Obviously you lose 4wd. It is a realistic option considering how expensive a syncro tranny rebuild is and how hard it is to find a used replacement when you just need to get back on the road.
You will run without a driveshaft and modify the syncro frame to accept the 2wd front transmission mount. Someone recently told me that their syncro already had the mounting holes and nutplates for the 2wd front mount... don't know...maybe mine does too...never looked.
Hell, you can even put a 2wd automatic into a syncro and its not that bad a swap.
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oasis
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Since this is the place for dumb syncro questions, let me add mine. I have zero experience with AWD and 4WD. I have heard the syncro in a Quantum station wagon is a different set-up than the one in a Vanagon (using US terms for the vehicles). But I don't know what that difference is and where the Audi Quattro fits in with all of this. So ...
What is the difference between the QSW syncro and the Vanagon syncro? Which is similar to the Audi Quattro?
What is the difference between AWD and 4WD? Is 4x4 another way of saying 4WD?
Did Vanagon Syncro models come with a rear differential locker as being standard, or as an option? Was a front differential locker an option?
Can differential locker(s) be added to a syncro? If so, what is the process a shop must go through in order to do so?
What are the appropriate situations when one should engage a rear locker, a front locker, or both?
Can one engage differential lockers on a Vanagon and/or QSW syncro on the fly?
If the lockers are not engaged, does a syncro drive like a 2WD or a 2WD with LSD?
I think that covers the 101 portion of my crash course. Any and all answers will be appreciated since most syncro or generic off-roading searches assume a knowledge base I don't have. Thanks.
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Kburns737
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oasis
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| oasis wrote: | What is the difference between the QSW syncro and the Vanagon syncro? Which is similar to the Audi Quattro?
What is the difference between AWD and 4WD? Is 4x4 another way of saying 4WD?
Did Vanagon Syncro models come with a rear differential locker as being standard, or as an option? Was a front differential locker an option?
Can differential locker(s) be added to a syncro? If so, what is the process a shop must go through in order to do so?
What are the appropriate situations when one should engage a rear locker, a front locker, or both?
Can one engage differential lockers on a Vanagon and/or QSW syncro on the fly?
If the lockers are not engaged, does a syncro drive like a 2WD or a 2WD with LSD? |
Not one reply  
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IdahoDoug
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Not being contentious, but each question is a open ended and would need an entire thread to answer. I read your post and thought man - where to start? Like asking to be educated w/o lifting your own finger.
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campism
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| oasis wrote: | | oasis wrote: | What is the difference between the QSW syncro and the Vanagon syncro? Which is similar to the Audi Quattro?
What is the difference between AWD and 4WD? Is 4x4 another way of saying 4WD?
Did Vanagon Syncro models come with a rear differential locker as being standard, or as an option? Was a front differential locker an option?
Can differential locker(s) be added to a syncro? If so, what is the process a shop must go through in order to do so?
What are the appropriate situations when one should engage a rear locker, a front locker, or both?
Can one engage differential lockers on a Vanagon and/or QSW syncro on the fly?
If the lockers are not engaged, does a syncro drive like a 2WD or a 2WD with LSD? |
Not one reply :sleeping: :van_yellow: |
Here's one. "What is the difference between AWD and 4WD? Is 4x4 another way of saying 4WD?" Generally, if you have to manually change from making the vehicle operate in 2WD to 4WD, it's a 4WD system, but if the vehicle senses the need and makes that change itself or runs it that mode at all times, it's AWD. |
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Syncroincity
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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^this.. plus traditionally a 4X4 has a transfer case with a variety of gear ranges ie 4WD high, 4WD-low, 2WD.
QSW and early Passat Syncro uses a viscous coupling like the Vanagon system. Quattro system uses a Torsen (Torque-Sensing) geared center differential.
4-Motion in transverse-engined VWs uses Haldex (clutched) center diff. Later 4-Motion Passats w/ longitudinal engines are the same as Quattros.
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oasis
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Saying "not being contentious" and then being contentious is still being contentious. Since I mentioned 101 which most college students with an IQ of at least 101 would understand, I was not looking for "a thread" for each question. And presuming one hasn't lifted a finger is not only an incorrect presumption, it fuels one further to presume anyone who names their Syncro as if it were a Cajun cruise ship isn't exactly all there.
I am sure Ricky Retardo from Idaho has been doing off-roading for some time. Good for him ... unless it's because he can't stay on the pavement. Off-roading is new to me. Do any search on the subject and 90% of the sites are about personal and collective adventures. YouTube tends to show adventures. The remaining sites are personal pages or places of business.
I looked into getting a Syncro Vanagon in the early '90's but opted for a regular Vanagon. I thought about a QSW at one point, but opted for a Pickup (often called a Rabbit Pickup). Most of my cars have had some fun factor but they tend to have a utlitarian purpose as well.
I am reaching a crossroads with those vehicles. My dad doesn't drive anymore so his car is next to useless. My daughter will be graduating in the next 15 months so we will replace her car with a Tiguan. I have kept the my air-cooled replacement on the back burner for a few years.
Hence, it would be stupid if I end up with the Eos I already have, an Iltis, and a Thing--three top-down cars with some overlapping utility. At the same time, I don't want to go through the expense of buying a Vanagon Syncro and swapping the ABA engine into it just to find out a Syncro was a bad choice just because I loved the Vanagon I once owned.
I have been to off-roading sites, Pinzgauer sites (although I have mostly decided a Pinz is likely overkill for my purposes), Iltis sites, and Jeep sites (although I zero interest in ever owning a Jeep). Most sites assume a certain built-in level of knowledge. I don't have that. I am also old enough that I don't want to just buy a QSW, a Syncro or an Iltis only to find out: Oops, I should have done something different. In my case, doing something different may mean doing two or three things differently.
Now getting to the two answers I did receive and appreciated getting ... it seems the Quattro as well as the QSW, Passat Syncro, Golf Syncro, and the variety of 4-motions are all varying versions of an AWD set-up in that the vehicle senses the need to throw more power to where the vehicle is getting more grip. I may be wrong but it also sounds like it is taking a limited-slip differential concept further.
The part that confuses me there is most sites pretty much state the Iltis was the forerunner to the Quattro. Yet, the Iltis has a rear differential locker. (There is also a way for it to have a front locker, but that's another issue for the moment.) That tells me the Iltis is a 4WD vehicle. So, how are the two related besides being based within the Volkswagen family?
All of this leads me back to some of my original questions. I know Syncro Vanagons have (or can have) rear lockers. I don't know if they can have front lockers. I don't know if a QSW has lockers of any sort. I don't know when (or in my case, if) having locking differential(s) is an advantage for my consideration.
I understand when someone would want to use their so-called granny gear. I don't understand when or why someone would want to shift their locking differential(s) on the fly.
I chose a VW site for these questions because somewhere along the line I will be buying at least two VWs and whether or not I will be harvesting the ABA out of my daughter's Jetta if I am getting a Vanagon as one of those vehicles. I'm not looking for any posts as long as mine. I'm sorry mine is this long but when a mindless dolt with 2400-plus posts makes an accusation, there may be someone other than himself paying attention.
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AnmlMthrM60
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Did Vanagon Syncro models come with a rear differential locker as being standard, or as an option? Was a front differential locker an option? |
Rear lockers were an option in the US. Front where not offered in the US but can be added.
| Quote: | | Can differential locker(s) be added to a syncro? If so, what is the process a shop must go through in order to do so? |
Front diffs have the provisions for the lockers to be added. Rear non locking diffs cannot have lockers added. At least easily???
| Quote: | | What are the appropriate situations when one should engage a rear locker, a front locker, or both? |
When one wheel is off the ground (or potentially could) and does not have traction. If a wheel does not have traction, you want to lock that respective diff.
| Quote: | | Can one engage differential lockers on a Vanagon and/or QSW syncro on the fly? |
Yes, you can engage Syncro lockers on the fly.
| Quote: | | If the lockers are not engaged, does a syncro drive like a 2WD or a 2WD with LSD? |
No, the Syncro is full time AWD unless a solid shaft (and / or) decoupler is installed.
Hope this helps. I couldn't tell you about the other vehicle in question. As IdahoDoug mentioned, there is a plethora of information on each of these subjects. This just isn't the place to go in depth on them.
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Syncroincity
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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The system in the Iltis (geared diff) became the Quattro... which is the *center* differential, separating the front and rear drive axles. The locking rear or front differentials operate completely independently regardless of what type of center diff the vehicle has. Some early Audi Quattros were available with locking diffs, but are very rare in the States, since most people here would put themselves into a tree in a car so equipped. Lockers are mostly found on off-roaders today, with limited-slip diffs being preferred for road cars.
The main advantage (besides interior space) the Vanagon Syncro offers over the other vehicles you're interested in is ground clearance and weight distribution, and a plethora of engine choices.  as well as a wide and growing aftermarket supplying off-road parts. It will simply go more places than a car-based platform can.
One you didn't mention is the Audi Allroad, an A6 wagon with adjustable suspension, a twin-turbo 2.7... beautiful car, and fairly competent soft-roader... can be had for about $10K these days. Thirsty, though. 
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oasis
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Perfect. That's all I wanted--a basis from which to start. Thanks.
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