| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
vwoki
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011
Posts: 33
Location: OKC
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: Compressor Hose Length when Painting? |
 |
|
| Am going to buy a 60hp or so compressor but need to stick it out in the back shed (since i don't have a garage) It is apron 150 feet from where i can stick a big compressor and where my driveway is. So that would be 150 feet of hose. I am wanting to use it to my my car and for air cools . Will the distance matter? Any options?? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
green71volks
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Scott City, MO
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The longer the hose the more pressure drop you will have. You will probably want to go with the largest air hose you can find to eliminate the pressure drop. You may also have a problem with enough CFMs with that long of a small diameter hose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 2735
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I wouldn't use hose for that distance. I would hard line it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Padillad
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Los Angeles, ca
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I agree hard line is the way to go. I have used black pipe and PVC pipe with success. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary 
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 16962
Location: 'Murrica
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Padillad wrote: | | I agree hard line is the way to go. I have used black pipe and PVC pipe with success. |
Never, ever use PVC pipe for compressed air. It is a disaster waiting to happen and when (not if) it explodes, serious injury or death can occur. PVC is not rated for compressed gas applications.
Here's a Samba thread that details running air lines in a workspace where the dangers of using PVC are explained: Running air lines
_________________
-
Download this spreadsheet for NOS/OE parts inquiries--> http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/2013-parts-spreadshhet.xls |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wetstuff
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 329
Location: Maryland
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gary - I have had a run of 2" white PVC outside my bldg. for probably 15yrs with only one issue ever. I made a drop-U after coming outside .. then a rise up to the soffit .. running about 20' before coming into back in. ..the drain at the bottom of the U gave out - that's it.
(I would not run LP or other explosive gasses thru PVC..)
If I had 150' .. black iron would probably be ideal, but I would probably run black water pipe because of the cost. I have three wells I use than on and am comfortable using it.
Jim
_________________
Manx #2614 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 16962
Location: 'Murrica
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wetstuff wrote: | Gary - I have had a run of 2" white PVC outside my bldg. for probably 15yrs with only one issue ever. I made a drop-U after coming outside .. then a rise up to the soffit .. running about 20' before coming into back in. ..the drain at the bottom of the U gave out - that's it.
(I would not run LP or other explosive gasses thru PVC..)
If I had 150' .. black iron would probably be ideal, but I would probably run black water pipe because of the cost. I have three wells I use than on and am comfortable using it.
Jim |
Since you couldn't bother with the link above, here's my response with links to relevant sites to back up my statements:
| Gary wrote: | Do not use PVC for running pressured air lines. Use hard black pipe or Eastwood's Blue Pipe.
Some quick searching yields some interesting hits:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-119880.html
| Quote: | | I read an article a while back that explained some of the problems when using PVC for compressed air lines. The article said something about how in a shop (like a garage or paint booth, etc.) compressed air fluctates so often that over time it causes the PVC to become brittle (from expanding and contracting so often). Then, all it takes is something to break the PVC and instead of just cracking it shatters/explodes sending fragments through the air at a spend that could severely hurt you. |
| Quote: | Your average PVC pipe should NEVER be used as air line. It is too brittle and has a very good chance of exploding. When PVC pipe explodes, it shatters. Copper is the best way to go, and is easy to work with. Get yourself a small pipe cutter, a small cylinder of MAPP gas or propane, a decent torch tip, solder and maybe some flux. It's easy and fun at the same time.
The only other thing you can safely use besides copper is a plastic pipe similar to your average PVC. I can't remember the trade name for it, but I have used it several times when running air lines at work. The pipe and all fittings are a light blue in color. If I remember correctly it is sized using the metric system. That's the easiest way to tell it apart, next to it being light blue in color. It is a softer type plastic, and if the pipe or fittings rupture, they will split lengthwise and not shatter.
If I could only remember the trade name. :smashpc: |
OSHA clearly does not recommend using PVC for compressed gasses.
| Quote: | Dear Mr. Cannova:
In response to your recent inquiry concerning our regulatory position on the use of plastic pipe for compressed air systems, I trust this letter will clear up any confusion over the issue.
It is our position that PVC pipe shall not be used as a means of transporting compressed air. This position follows the manufacturer's own statements that PVC is unsuitable for compressed air systems. We do allow the use of certain ABS materials that are specifically designed for compressed air systems. One such product is "Duraplus" air line piping system ABS pipe. However, as in any such system, the manufacturer's specifications on acceptable pressure and temperature considerations must be followed.
In closing, misapplication of a product, such as using PVC for compressed air systems, may result in citations and penalties being issued dependent upon the specific conditions.
I appreciate your concern and inquiry into this potential safety hazard. |
| Quote: | It has recently come to my attention that there is a severe safety regarding the improper usage of plastic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe. This pipe is designed for the transmittal of liquids, and is dangerous when used for transmitting compressed air or gas. Unfortunately, PVC has been frequently used with compressed air in construction projects across the country.
The state of Washington has notified the public that PVC pipe is not to be used in compressed air systems. I have also learned that the state of Nevada is in the process of making a similar determination and announcement. Additionally manufacturers of this product advise against its use with compressed air in their catalog publications.
I believe that it is in the best interests of the citizens of our state if your office would expeditiously make such an announcement. A notice to users of the hazards of PVC pipe - when used improperly - would have the effect of preventing possible severe injury to people who work with or near this product.
By way of this letter, I am contacting the Department of Labor, OSHA, in Washington, D.C. and asking their officials to report to me on actions taken on the Federal level to restrict the use of this pipe and to notify users of the potential hazards involved in improper use of PVC pipe.
Your timely consideration of this request is appreciated. |
PVC fractures and splinters when it breaks and is NOT recommended for use in gas delivery.
For those interested in "that blue pipe", Eastwood sells it;
http://www.eastwood.com/100-ft-rapid-air-master-garage-kit.html |
_________________
-
Download this spreadsheet for NOS/OE parts inquiries--> http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/2013-parts-spreadshhet.xls |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 983
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vwoki wrote: | | Am going to buy a 60hp or so compressor but need to stick it out in the back shed (since i don't have a garage) It is apron 150 feet from where i can stick a big compressor and where my driveway is. So that would be 150 feet of hose. I am wanting to use it to my my car and for air cools . Will the distance matter? Any options?? |
60 HP? How many jack-hammers are you planning to run?
_________________
The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Padillad
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Los Angeles, ca
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gary wrote: | | Wetstuff wrote: | Gary - I have had a run of 2" white PVC outside my bldg. for probably 15yrs with only one issue ever. I made a drop-U after coming outside .. then a rise up to the soffit .. running about 20' before coming into back in. ..the drain at the bottom of the U gave out - that's it.
(I would not run LP or other explosive gasses thru PVC..)
If I had 150' .. black iron would probably be ideal, but I would probably run black water pipe because of the cost. I have three wells I use than on and am comfortable using it.
Jim |
Since you couldn't bother with the link above, here's my response with links to relevant sites to back up my statements:
| Gary wrote: | Do not use PVC for running pressured air lines. Use hard black pipe or Eastwood's Blue Pipe.
Some quick searching yields some interesting hits:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-119880.html
| Quote: | | I read an article a while back that explained some of the problems when using PVC for compressed air lines. The article said something about how in a shop (like a garage or paint booth, etc.) compressed air fluctates so often that over time it causes the PVC to become brittle (from expanding and contracting so often). Then, all it takes is something to break the PVC and instead of just cracking it shatters/explodes sending fragments through the air at a spend that could severely hurt you. |
| Quote: | Your average PVC pipe should NEVER be used as air line. It is too brittle and has a very good chance of exploding. When PVC pipe explodes, it shatters. Copper is the best way to go, and is easy to work with. Get yourself a small pipe cutter, a small cylinder of MAPP gas or propane, a decent torch tip, solder and maybe some flux. It's easy and fun at the same time.
The only other thing you can safely use besides copper is a plastic pipe similar to your average PVC. I can't remember the trade name for it, but I have used it several times when running air lines at work. The pipe and all fittings are a light blue in color. If I remember correctly it is sized using the metric system. That's the easiest way to tell it apart, next to it being light blue in color. It is a softer type plastic, and if the pipe or fittings rupture, they will split lengthwise and not shatter.
If I could only remember the trade name. :smashpc: |
OSHA clearly does not recommend using PVC for compressed gasses.
| Quote: | Dear Mr. Cannova:
In response to your recent inquiry concerning our regulatory position on the use of plastic pipe for compressed air systems, I trust this letter will clear up any confusion over the issue.
It is our position that PVC pipe shall not be used as a means of transporting compressed air. This position follows the manufacturer's own statements that PVC is unsuitable for compressed air systems. We do allow the use of certain ABS materials that are specifically designed for compressed air systems. One such product is "Duraplus" air line piping system ABS pipe. However, as in any such system, the manufacturer's specifications on acceptable pressure and temperature considerations must be followed.
In closing, misapplication of a product, such as using PVC for compressed air systems, may result in citations and penalties being issued dependent upon the specific conditions.
I appreciate your concern and inquiry into this potential safety hazard. |
| Quote: | It has recently come to my attention that there is a severe safety regarding the improper usage of plastic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe. This pipe is designed for the transmittal of liquids, and is dangerous when used for transmitting compressed air or gas. Unfortunately, PVC has been frequently used with compressed air in construction projects across the country.
The state of Washington has notified the public that PVC pipe is not to be used in compressed air systems. I have also learned that the state of Nevada is in the process of making a similar determination and announcement. Additionally manufacturers of this product advise against its use with compressed air in their catalog publications.
I believe that it is in the best interests of the citizens of our state if your office would expeditiously make such an announcement. A notice to users of the hazards of PVC pipe - when used improperly - would have the effect of preventing possible severe injury to people who work with or near this product.
By way of this letter, I am contacting the Department of Labor, OSHA, in Washington, D.C. and asking their officials to report to me on actions taken on the Federal level to restrict the use of this pipe and to notify users of the potential hazards involved in improper use of PVC pipe.
Your timely consideration of this request is appreciated. |
PVC fractures and splinters when it breaks and is NOT recommended for use in gas delivery.
For those interested in "that blue pipe", Eastwood sells it;
http://www.eastwood.com/100-ft-rapid-air-master-garage-kit.html |
|
Gary, I agree with you if you are using that cheap ass thin walled PVC that is very brittle. You cant even cut with a PVC cutter with out it shattering. But I'm talking about the thick walled SCH40 PVC that stuff is tough and will hold up with the pressure of a compressor no problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 2735
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I used the thick walled PVC for about 5 years with no problem at my old house (I was on a budget).
In my new place I ran copper. It wasn't that much more expensive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
craigman
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 1811
Location: redding
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The trick i found with using PVC pipe is, use a short piece of regular air hose from the compressor to the pvc pipe. This eliminates the vibrations from the compressor.
Then use a regulator at the end of the pvc pipe where it goes into your garage.
I've done it this many times with excellent results. Never a failure.
And of course, use schedual 40 pipe. Not the thin stuff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eshan2
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2002
Posts: 246
Location: Denver North Carolina
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ive used the schedule 40 PVC in mine for 11 years with no problem either.OSHA dont come to my house.Not alot of good at work either.
_________________
I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
1963 Beetle currently under reconstruction.
Ernest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
schell '59
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2006
Posts: 1403
Location: RI
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
...pvc has a pressure of 300psi...no one should be running tank pressure through the line anyways...no air tool is a min of 150 psi.
you should regulate the air pressure anyways before it goes into the lines...i've used 3/4 and 1" for over 10 yrs and never had a leak or a problem but steel is way better for sure...especially if the line was to be bumped,hit etc and can and will explode if hit hard enough.
the prob with metal is it sweats 4x faster and water eats the interior opf the line...so a separator is a must.
all point are good here guys and opinions vary,but to answer the original question,the air line should be as short as possible as water will increase the longer the line,plus hoses errode and cause debris in the tools and paint application.
_________________
WWW.401RESTOS.COM
see my "gallery" for more pics other than the website. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 16962
Location: 'Murrica
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| schell '59 wrote: | ...pvc has a pressure of 300psi.
PVC is not rated for compressed gas, which has different characteristics than compressed liquids. The information I posted in this thread covered both materials specifications, inherent dangers, and first hand accounts by various Samba members who learned the hard way but didn't get injured. Some of the comments that pooh-pooh these warnings are akin to people who act the same when working around 12V lead acid batteries until they meet that one person who had one explode.
|
| Quote: |
all point are good here guys and opinions vary,but to answer the original question,the air line should be as short as possible as water will increase the longer the line,plus hoses errode and cause debris in the tools and paint application. |
Actually, they aren't good points. One of the downsides of the Internet is there are too many people who advocate dangerous practices all in the name of "I've never had a problem doing so" as if it's a license of authority. It's not that you've never had a problem, it's that you've been lucky up to this point. It reminds me of when I was a kid and the older generation always advocated using gasoline, benzine, and other harsh chemicals for cleaning parts, that they never had a problem doing so, and that respirators and gloves were for pussies.
_________________
-
Download this spreadsheet for NOS/OE parts inquiries--> http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/2013-parts-spreadshhet.xls |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VizionCustoms
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2012
Posts: 48
Location: SLC, UT
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
3 things you nee to get to make it happen and make it look good.
1. A pressure reg. at bottom of the gun.
By doing this, you can set it to best pressure, regardless of how long or what type of set up you have. If you are setting it under the gun thats what the pressure is, when you spray.
2. You need a non-chrushable hose.
A reg. hose can be stepped, stopping on or kinked, stopping the air flow. You need to keep your pressure consistently, though out your paint job.
A pinting hose has a thicker inside wall.
3. You can't get a ton of pressure though a small diamiter hose.
Just think of it like this, A garden hose VS a fire hose. What gets the job done? Thats right depends on what your doing, but you can always turn down the fire hose, but you can't turn up the garden hose more then what it can handel. So remember this, longer it is the more pressure you will need to comp. for the langth
my 2cent |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
