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modok
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Location: Colorado Springs
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 Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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it looks just the same as gericos or krushers dyno charts from DRD
the values generally make sense, but the shape of the curve is impossible.
having a longish 1 5/8 header and carbs on the big side it should some kind of a peak around 5000 and fall off fast as the header and heads sign off soon after,
howdya splain it doesen't?
Last edited by modok on Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CJG
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Wow Stipped66 you are right on  |
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modok
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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comment now irrelevant
Last edited by modok on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:02 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Pat D
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Stripped 66, who's dyno was this engine ran on and what software was this dyno sheet done with? BTW, It looks like you and the builder have the same software on your computer lol.
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Last edited by Pat D on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stripped66
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Pat D
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Stripped66 wrote: | | Pat D wrote: | | Stripped 66, who's dyno was this engine ran on and what software was this dyno sheet done with? |
Who's are you referring to? The 2180 with your heads and cam? |
The dyno chart for the 2276 in question.
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Stripped66
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat D wrote: | | Stripped66 wrote: | | Pat D wrote: | | Stripped 66, who's dyno was this engine ran on and what software was this dyno sheet done with? |
Who's are you referring to? The 2180 with your heads and cam? |
The dyno chart for the 2276 in question. |
I know neither of that info, but assume it is Darren's dyno. (the excel chart I posted is just the data extracted from JL's dyno chart, and the data from your dyno table).
I responded primarily to your claim that a 2276 with a K8 cam couldn't make 121 ft.lbs of torque at 1700 RPM. The dynograph JL posted starts at 2000 rpm, not 1700 rpm; and 121 ft.lbs at 2000 RPM is not appreciably different than what you claim to pull from a similar engine, after considering differences in displacement, cam, and heads.
Yes, the torque curve on JL's dynograph is unusually flat; however, would you like to comment how much of that might have to do with the operator's technique? After all, results from your own dyno for that 2180 show that torque is exactly the same at 2500 and 3000 rpm (to a tenth of a ft.lb!), and is exactly the same at 5000 and 5500 rpm (to a hundredth of a ft.lb!!!).
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Stripped66
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat D wrote: | | BTW, It looks like you and the builder have the same software on your computer lol. |
I just took the data JL posted, and the data listed on your website, and plotted it in Excel. You might even have Excel on your computer, too. I guess I'm missing your point.
If this is Darren's dyno, IIRC he has an analog Stuska. Somebody might want to correct me, but I don't think that model will save the results to disk, let alone a punch card.
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Pat D
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Stripped66 wrote: | | Pat D wrote: | | Stripped66 wrote: | | Pat D wrote: | | Stripped 66, who's dyno was this engine ran on and what software was this dyno sheet done with? |
Who's are you referring to? The 2180 with your heads and cam? |
The dyno chart for the 2276 in question. |
I know neither of that info, but assume it is Darren's dyno. (the excel chart I posted is just the data extracted from JL's dyno chart, and the data from your dyno table).
I responded primarily to your claim that a 2276 with a K8 cam couldn't make 121 ft.lbs of torque at 1700 RPM. The dynograph JL posted starts at 2000 rpm, not 1700 rpm; and 121 ft.lbs at 2000 RPM is not appreciably different than what you claim to pull from a similar engine, after considering differences in displacement, cam, and heads.
Yes, the torque curve on JL's dynograph is unusually flat; however, would you like to comment how much of that might have to do with the operator's technique? After all, results from your own dyno for that 2180 show that torque is exactly the same at 2500 and 3000 rpm (to a tenth of a ft.lb!), and is exactly the same at 5000 and 5500 rpm (to a hundredth of a ft.lb!!!). |
At high rpm's, you can "bump" the needle with the brake to get a higher torque output. Not sure if this dyno graph was done on a sweep or individual pulls at each rpm? The torque curve you mention on our website is anything but flat like the one in question. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on this. My feelings are the dyno graph is questionable.
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Stripped66
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat D wrote: | | At high rpm's, you can "bump" the needle with the brake to get a higher torque output. Not sure if this dyno graph was done on a sweep or individual pulls at each rpm? The torque curve you mention on our website is anything but flat like the one in question. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on this. My feelings are the dyno graph is questionable. |
You don't need to get into a pissing match, you can simply answer how in the world the engine you tested and advertise on your website was able to achieve the exact same torque reading at two different RPM points...not once, but twice! Sure, the torque goes up and down in a curve-like manner, but it stops every so often, in an oh-so questionable way.
But, hey...I'm not a vendor, and I don't have a bone to pick with either of you. And I agree the torque curve of JL's engine looks remarkably flat.I also didn't claim a certain low RPM torque value was impossible, even though you claim to achieve nearly an equally impossible low-rpm engine torque on a different (and smaller!) engine. I'm just looking at the numbers and reading the stories they tell me.
Oh, and here's that dyno data plotted in MatLab, instead of Excel. Enjoy!
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Last edited by Stripped66 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mark tucker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Stripped66 wrote: | | mark tucker wrote: | | kinda hard to compair the two with out a lot more info, such as heads,cc,cr,induction,cam,rockers, exhaust. |
Actually, it's quite easy to compare the two. Especially when much of that info is known, and is posted both in this thread and on CB's website. Something about leading a horse to water... |
w then why havent you posted everything about both so we can compair them?splash splash splash |
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Stripped66
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Stripped66
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: | | comment now irrelevant |
Sorry, Modok. You're comment was spot-on, and Krusher's engine dyno torque curve was indeed flat while his chassis dyno curve was not. I hadn't recalled enough of that thread to immediately remember the labels were switched on the graph. Let the floggings begin.
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modok
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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No problem, we could keep going, but unfortunately we seem to be in agreement  |
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jl_1303
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Out of interest, if you were to do it all over again, what would you have changed to further optimize this engine? |
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Stripped66
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KopfenJager
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:10 am Post subject: |
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I think a lot of this comes down to reputation and trust. If I can't build or dyno a engine, I have to find someone I trust to do it for me. Thats were reputation comes in, and feedback. Luckily I can assemble my own engines, and I've been lucky doing so, but I buy quality parts from CB mainly cause I trust them and I have had few complaints.
I soon want to dyno tune my engine, but don't have a dyno, so I'm going to have to go to someone and trust them to do it. Believe me, that I'm going to be standing right there asking questions and helping out. That way I come away feeling every thing is on the up and up. Who knows, anybody can forge or copy a dyno sheet and blue print sheet. Comes down to trust. just my 2 cents. |
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vwracerdave
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Having a dyno printout is totally worthless. When you build an engine you have what you have. You can dyno you engine at 10 different shops and I guarantee you that you will have 12 different dyno graphs.
Then there is the "Orange County Correction Factor".
If you really want to see accurate numbers printed on a sheet of paper , run your car down the drag strip and look at your ET slip. The stop watch doesn't lie.
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mark tucker
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| unless your on a short track. |
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manoa
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| vwracerdave wrote: | | If you really want to see accurate numbers printed on a sheet of paper , run your car down the drag strip and look at your ET slip. The stop watch doesn't lie. |
I can still see 10 different drivers and 12 different time slips.
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