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Aaron Britcher
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Joined: March 31, 2008
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:06 am Post subject: Small 12V generator? |
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Okay, this might be a stupid question but this forum has a few other stupid questions already so here goes:
Has anyone seen a genuine original small diameter (6V size) 12V generator to suit the Type 3 engine. I am sure I have seen a photo of one but cant for the life of me find it. If they do exist, does anyone know where I might be able to procure one?
This is required for a period correct looking 1964/5 'S' engine with some period correct performance parts that's in my engine stand at the moment.
Please contact me via email if you have any information that could assist or post some pictures up if you have any.
thanks in advance,
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Aaron Britcher
http://1500notchback.blogspot.com/
1956 Type 114 Oval Bug
1958 Type 113 Euro Bug
1964 Type 312 1500 'S' Notchback
1965 Type 366 1500 'N' Variant Panel Van
1990 MK 2 GTI Golf
2012 T5 TDI Transporter
Need to contact me? Email is faster than a PM - [email protected]
For T3 Panel Van information:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=389465 |
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thom
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Location: Sacramento
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Aaron Britcher
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Joined: March 31, 2008
Posts: 472
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Thom- that is my next option if I can't find the absolute correct marked 12V small unit. That is if a 12V stamped small one exists to begin with.
It might be what I end up using I suspect... but I do want to firstly try to find an original one.
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Aaron Britcher
http://1500notchback.blogspot.com/
1956 Type 114 Oval Bug
1958 Type 113 Euro Bug
1964 Type 312 1500 'S' Notchback
1965 Type 366 1500 'N' Variant Panel Van
1990 MK 2 GTI Golf
2012 T5 TDI Transporter
Need to contact me? Email is faster than a PM - [email protected]
For T3 Panel Van information:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=389465 |
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thom
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Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: |
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I wonder how hard it would be to just re-stamp the voltage markings on a 6v before it gets re-plated.
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-Thom
Bus Registry
1952 Type 11c
1956 Single Cab
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1960 DD Panel
1956 Type 1 Karmann Ghia
1962 Type 3 Karmann Ghia
1963 Type 3 Karmann Ghia
1968 Single Cab |
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Erik G 
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: |
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there is no factory correct 12v small case type 3 gen. The closest would be the porsche 356 gen that we use for 25 and 36hp type 1 and type 2 motors. the only thing is that the rest of the shaft will be sticking out the front of the generator. I've seen people doing the backwards alternator thing, but I don't like that shaft spinning at 9000 RPM's sticking out of the case...
Something I don't know - Is it the field winding, or the armature that makes it 6 or 12v?
Could one take a 356 gen, put it on a laithe and mill the front (front of car) end off, then use the type 3 6v end cap? It wouldn't be cheap if you buy all your stuff retail, but I've had good luck getting 356 generators cheap. Keep in mind they are only 25 amp ... |
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Slow 1200
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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well, the parts book shows some 12 volt generators for the M630/M633 options in early cars, I would assume those are small diameter, as they list the same 90mm seal as for the 6 volt one:
marked: 311 903 031C and 311 903 031 LJ /GEG 450M/123700FR29
part numbers:311 903 017B and 311 903 791
I would assume they are extremely rare |
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Bobnotch
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Slow 1200
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Erik G
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I wish I knew electrical mechanics better... For instance, without the regulator, what does a 6v generator put out voltage wise? Cause when I burned up a regulator, my voltage sure did spike. I've put 12v through 6v headlights before, and I'm telling you on my 6v notch, when I blew the voltage regulator, the headlights were brighter than 12v through a 6v bulb. They lit up the road like it was friday night football in Dallas. Almost daylight kind of bright. And then they popped LOL
Is there some way to harness that? I have run an 8v battery and tweaked regulator before, So I do know that it works regardless of people's opinions on that... |
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krusher
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: | I wish I knew electrical mechanics better... For instance, without the regulator, what does a 6v generator put out voltage wise? Cause when I burned up a regulator, my voltage sure did spike. I've put 12v through 6v headlights before, and I'm telling you on my 6v notch, when I blew the voltage regulator, the headlights were brighter than 12v through a 6v bulb. They lit up the road like it was friday night football in Dallas. Almost daylight kind of bright. And then they popped LOL
Is there some way to harness that? I have run an 8v battery and tweaked regulator before, So I do know that it works regardless of people's opinions on that... |
Its depends whats parts are put together Erik, the guy that Rick clark has build the generators can mix and match parts and get custom amps, I think a stock a 6v throws out about 8 maybe 9volts.
Rick told me the guy can get over 100 amps out of a generator if you need it.
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Mike Fisher
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notchboy
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Location: Seattle WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: | | jimmynotch had his small 6V generator rebuilt into 12V. |
I did as well for the Anthracite notch.
The OG 12v were a service vehicle M Code making them rare as hens teeth. Meant for Police-Fire-Ambulance vehicles. Somewhere, someone took a pic of a 12v gen on a service veh at a show from the 80's. Other than looking over a parts book code, Id of never known.
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Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1963 Pearl White Sunroof Notch
1964 T34 S Convertible
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Erik G
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| how much did that run you? |
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notchboy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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$100-$150 at the time. It was a shop in Riverside. I remember having trouble with it charging-because it wasnt polarized-so Im at the shop in the notch and Danny Zapeda rolls by and see's me  So we shot the shit for an hour. Then I got the Zapeda wharehouse tour. If you guys dont know-Danny has allot of VW shit. Cool guy to.
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Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1963 Pearl White Sunroof Notch
1964 T34 S Convertible
1974 Westfalia Hardtop Campmobile
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
the1500club.com
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jimmynotch
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Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Chiming in here.... I had my 6V Generator "rewrapped" to 12V to keep the stock look of my 65 notch. Essentially what happens is, they take the 6V feild coils out of the generator and replace them with 12V feild coils, keeping the original armature. I think the field coils that are used are Porsche 356 generator filed coils, but I don't know for sure. The few times I have had them rebuilt that way, the cost was about $200. The shop I go to here can still do it. Now, here's the caveat.... I have burned up these rewrapped 6V-to-12V by not being careful. Apparently if you run big ass fog lights, a stereo, and upgraded H4 headlights all at once and if your battery sucks, there is a chance you will fry out the generator armature. As in it melted all the damn solder out out the wires.  I am not sure what kind of amperage I am pushing with this generator, but it can't be much.
As stated above, I have heard you can get much more amps than stock (I haven't heard of 100, but I have heard in the neighborhood of 55) from one of these generators, but at the time I didn't believe it. If anyone has more info on how to bump the output amperage on a generator, especially one of these small 6V-to-12V jobbers, I wanna know.
Also, Russ Wolfe had said something about the early M-coded 12V generators that were brought up previously. He had said they were basically the same thing as I have, with the Porsche field coils installed in a 6V generator housing then stamped accordingly. Not really a standard part, essentially for speciallty vehicles only. They may have been made to order or something, I dunno.
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Jim in Sacto -
| my wonderful loving supportive wife wrote: | | You guys are dorks. |
1965 1500-S Notchback --"Maggy"
1971 Type 2 Double Cab --"George"
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Erik G
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| I have read up a lot in the last 24 hours. It's not that simple to do it right. I hope to be able to do this for yall pretty soon |
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jimmynotch
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: | | I have read up a lot in the last 24 hours. It's not that simple to do it right. I hope to be able to do this for yall pretty soon |
What is not simple about it? Is there some tweaks to the smaller generator that can be done besides swapping out the field coils?
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Jim in Sacto -
| my wonderful loving supportive wife wrote: | | You guys are dorks. |
1965 1500-S Notchback --"Maggy"
1971 Type 2 Double Cab --"George"
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Robert Chambers
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