The Porsche 356 movement and all 356 Registry Discussion

[mazaguy]

I'm interested in alot of cars and I see a definite trends in some genres of them. For example, as a whole the American muscle car scene has been very strong and continues to be. You see a diverse range of people interested in the scene. The VW scene is extremely hot (vibrant!) now. I would mainly attest this to the openness of the community, the infusion of younger enthusiasts, lower prices, availability of information (and to a lesser degree, parts).

In contrast, the 356 scene, is well, dead or dying. The cars are caged up by older owners who rarely if ever drive them (known fact). The parts are extremely expensive (some of them are just marked up VW parts). They are of inferior quality (talking mainly of metal body, there is no 'Gerson' parts, just the really horrible lowest quality replacements). There is information out there, but again, it's mainly kept on one site. The keepers of this information are old and not open to newer members. And it's obvious they want to keep new people out. Very few, fresh cars come on the scene. And if they do, some of them are DOA. The strangest thing is that Porsche as a company loves and embraces it's heritage, where as VW clearly does not. But this has not translated on the current 356 membership.

The future is bleak my 356 loving friends. This is an open letter to any 356 owners, please, have a re think about your attitudes. Let the youngsters in! The worst thing that can happen to a car genre is for it to get BORING...

Sorry for the long rant!

[Jake Raby]

Look at the pics of my outlaw in this forum and you'll see that it isn't typical for a 356.
Honestly, building this 356 has been a joy compared to a VW.. Who cares if the parts are expensive, they are actually worth a damn.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[Glenn]

While the high cost of a 356 usually means only wealthy and older people own them, there's a hard core group of "outlaws" that drive them all the time and race them.



_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
HBB/RW
www.DasVolks.com
Long Island's Aircooled Club

[gimmesomeshelter]

Hello-

While most 356 owners are 50+ years old, there is hope. My next door neighbor is in his early thirties, and he's going to buy a 356 as soon. He's just waiting for Facebook, his wife's employer, to go public.

Cheers,

Paul
_________________
My dog's vet has all my car money (http://sagecenters.com/)

[TC/TeamEvil]

I called the 356 Registry the "Depends for Men Club" and was pretty much asked to pack up and go.

At that point I owned a '55 Continental Coupe and a '65 SC coupe, they both needed work, but not shabby cars to begin with at all. The more expensive years/model when restored.

It IS too bad, but with the size of the over-all membership of the Registry and 356 ownership at large, a relatively small handful of outlaw owner, vigorous drivers, or master builders like Raby just doesn't offset the statements in the opening post.

Just one or two occasional exceptions really doesn't impact the numbers.

That silliness said, Glenn is entirely correct. It's a money game here, rare and expensive cars when restored rather than Outlawed. wealthy older people own them. Rolling 401Ks that cannot be tampered with or damaged.

It's the 356 origins that continue to confuse, just because they shared a few VW components, doesn't make them VWs. Nobody would expect any other pricey exotic car owner to drive/race/alter their personal investment in any way, but the 356 continues to attract that kind of attention and the owners, that sort of attack.

A VERY weird situation, an odd relationship between those that own and those that don't, all made the more confusing by the Speedster and 356 Coupe reproductions.

Neat to chat about, but no one's real business other than the 356 owners, who seem to have things pretty much all figured out and couldn't care less about what we whine about over here.

TC

[mpribanic]

[mazaguy]

Thank you for pointing out the exceptions! Except The first exception is a 80K car that is rarely driven and is on it's 3rd owner?

The second exception is someone who will buy a 356, when Facebook goes IPO (Meaning, you literally have to hit the lottery!? to get into the 356 game).

The third exception is, 'most miles driven in a 356'. Just having a contest like this means that, well, 356's are just not driven. You have to have a contest to show that some people are driving a 356!

Here's an interesting poll done on the registry regarding Miles driven in a year. I think over 71% drove less than 3000 Km.

http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/1/1034.html

Or a more recent discussion on a 'deriviative' car... Snarky! This is just one example of course, there's literally thousands of them on the 356 Registry.

http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/14/29348.html

Everytime I have heard of the 356 Registry being mentioned, it always comes with a caveat or two... (Usually to the tune of 'old codgers', 'cranky geriatrics', 'snobs' etc). Not exactly welcoming arms.

With respect, I also have to point out that Glenn is a moderator on the 356 Registry, and mpribanic has pointed out his bias as well.

[Brian Mathe]

Not everybody on the site are old grumps. I belong and dont own a 356 but will some day (there are plenty of un-opened bans and garages out there). The site is full of information. Spend some time looking for the good in the site and you will find it.
_________________
59 Kombi
66 Porsche 912
50 split-window

[Jake Raby]

I don't care who else owns the cars.. I don't care about 356 events, I am building my car to put my skills and products into practical application use. If someone doesn't like my car, they can pretty much kiss my ass.

I build a lot of TIV conversion engines for the 356 platform and most of these purchasers are in their 50s and they aren't jerks. They are refreshing to work with and they appreciate what we create.

If more people built what thy wanted and not what would impress the "other guy" we would all be better off.
356 purchasers make up the best of my customer base and always have.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[mazaguy]

Well, I would never imply anyone is a jerk! I was just saying the attitudes are bit snobish.

I am very interested in knowing (from Mr Raby) if he sees his 356 business increasing or decreasing? I have seen your 456 and it's fantastic, exactly what we need (different cars, different vendors!).

I don't want to imply this is a personal thing, I want the 356 community to grow, and be vibrant. I still hold my opinion that it's a dying community and not a thriving one like it 'should be'.

The only part of the 356 community that is thriving (for a fact) is the replicas. These cars are open to anyone, the prices are going up and there is probably more of these cars out there than the originals! The owners of these cars are super diversified, but they are not exactly 'welcome' when 'real' 356's are around (that's a shame I think). As these are the exact people that will convert to 'real' 356 owners (who else will?) Not 911 owners that's for sure.

PS I own a stockish 58A and I am open to any car enthusiast in any car I see Ghia guys wave to me all the time, and I always wave back.

[Jake Raby]

My 356 business has increased.. Over 1/2 of what we build these days goes into a 356. NONE of those are based on the 356 engine~
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[michaelalo]

an opinion is like an anus....everybody has one and some people are one....on this forum and in the 356registry...., respect those who have been aound these cars for a long time and who know the facts and be wary of those late-comer enthusiasts who think they know...just another opinion

[gimmesomeshelter]

Hello-

I would argue that you are comparing "apples to oranges." Porsche 356s were made in small numbers, catered to a niche market, and carried a high price. VWs (and American muscle cars) were built in very large numbers, were marketed to the masses, and were priced accordingly. VW made more than 21million Bugs (not counting buses, etc.). Porsche built 85,000 356s. In other words, 250 bugs were built for every 356. I'm amazed that there are any 356s left at all.

Cheers,

Paul
_________________
My dog's vet has all my car money (http://sagecenters.com/)

[nxsdude]

I for one have just recently purchased a 356 Replica from a guy here on the TheSamba group. I am LOVING IT !!!

However, I will tell you, I have gone to a couple of the different "356" sites.
one of the things I find a bit ... un-nerving... ????

I mentioned that I have a 356 "replica".... WOW !!! you would have thought that I called their mother a name!!

I was instantly "sent away" from a lot of the sites as I "....didn't have a REAL 356... "
I was really surprised at how i was received. I think people need to just chill a bit. I WISH I could afford a REAL 356. Until then... I will spread the news!
For the money... cant think of a more complete and fun car to drive and work on!

[Braukuche]

I bought my 356B about a year ago or so and have attended a few events and met quite a few 356 owners in the process of selling parts and on the whole I have never encountered any snobbery here in So Cal. If you saw my B coupe you would see that I am opening myself up for snobbery because it is usually the ugliest car there. I am surrounded by pristine and beautiful examples, yet without fail people tell me they like my car and many suggest I keep it like it is, "The last thing we need is another shiny, red car" is what I am usually told. I do think that the demographic is up there in age, but then these are pricey cars and older dudes tend to have the money or bought 20 years ago when the cars were cheap. In fact I think there is about as much snobbery in the split bus scene as there is in the 356 scene.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!

My retirement plan:
1958 PG/SG Standard
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 crusty double cab
1960 convertible bug
1962 So-22 Mosaic Westfalia
1963 356 B coupe runner
1963 356 B coupe in pieces
1965 standard sunroof bus
1967 912

[jt912]

NXSDude. Try showing up at a Rolex event with a fake Rolex. Or buy a counterfeit Rosetta Stone on Ebay and try and call the real tech support number. Or show up at Pebble Beach or Amelia in a replica Speedster. 356 replicas are just that. Fun to drive? Sure. Easy to maintain? Sure. Inexpensive? Comparatively. A Porsche 356? No! I don't think it gives people the right to be rude to you, but I can understand their view point. Heck I get that way when I see people drop non-616 engines in 912s. To each his own.

[Jacks]

You can see some driving around here:

http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/3/29673.html

[dcheek]

I've been in the Porsche Club for 35 years. I'm a member of the largest region and have NEVER encountered snobbery with any member about any Porsche made. I should know, I own the most controversial Porsche made; the 914. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard, "That's not a Porsche, it's a VW". That's not a comment from fellow Porsche Club members, but from casual car "enthusiasts". I always respond by saying Dr. Porsche made his first Porsche with mostly VW sourced parts. My 914 is welcome, and admired by everyone at all Porsche events. My point? You get what you give. If you have an attitude, you will get an attitude.

Now as far as the 356 hobby, prices are at a point that have pushed many out of the marketplace, me included. Than doesn't mean I don't want one or are jealous of those that have them, it's just that people are finally realizing what they are and there is a finite supply. So, the decline I see is the pool of people that can afford them. The same thing is happening to the "Long Hood" 911's, and 914-6's, and to a lesser extent, the 4 cylinder 914's. For that matter, how about the Type II VW Buses that have skyrocketed with the Barrett Jackson auctions of late? I can tell you that the days of beater Busses for 500-1000 dollars are over. They are dragging out anything from a swamp field and getting outrageous money for it. Why? Same reason, realization and finite supply, coupled with the fact that a fully restored bus is in the 5 figures plus range.

I say if you want a 356, buy it, enjoy it any way you want whether is be concours original, restored or customized. It's your car, do what you want. Just don't be a snob, and avoid those who are. Don't let one person or experience ruin your parade; Porsche Parade that is.

Dave
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1961 Bug
1965 Bug
1966 Sunroof Bug
1966 Westy
1976 914 2.0
1989 911 Carrera
1982 Diesel Rabbit Pick Up
1982 Diesel Vanagon
2006 Jetta Perfekta Edition

[gimmesomeshelter]

Hello-

When a VW guy meets a Porsche guy, the conversation must go something like this.


Link


Cheers,

Paul
_________________
My dog's vet has all my car money (http://sagecenters.com/)

[aircooled356]

Funny story.
I have never driven a 356.
I have never even rode in one.
How can that be aircooled356?
16 yrs ago, wife 9 mo pregnant with first child. 59' 356 in want ads 5mi from my house.
Last thing I need or can afford is an old Porsche. Guy needs to sell as he is moving from New Mexico to North Carolina.
No engine, no interior so to speak, rusted floors and channels held together with copious amounts of fiberglassing. Found 10 lbs of bondo in it and a hit on driver front which moved everything over 1/2".
I bought it. Why? Because it was cheap and I had visions.....
I've been dragging this thing around with me for 16 years. Will it ever be restored? Maybe if I hit the lottery...or Jerry Seinfield reads this and takes pity upon me.... or I die and my wife sells it. Sad but true.
Since I cannot pay to have it restored I will go the "Jesse James" route and do it myself to a level that is within my abilities. Will it ever make it to a show? No. But it will see the road again...someday.