Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:05 am Post subject:
Entirely possible, the heater boxes are older than me. I'll double check that when I get home. _________________ My 1970 Beetle Thread
Southern Integrity Aircoolers
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject:
So spent some more time working on her today, finally got her running well enough to go for a decently long drive. Pulls nicely, revs come up and down fairly smoothly, idles well too.
Still fighting an exhaust leak I think, the car is a touch louder than I think it should be and I got another backfire after we got home. Still this is the best she has run yet.
Joined: August 22, 2008 Posts: 934 Location: Las Vegas N. V.
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: exhaust Leak
I only suggest that as I worked on a friends Bus once trying to chase down a leak and the last thing I looked at was the heat exchanger and I'll be damned if it didn't have a hole in it. you couldn't see it as it was inside the Heat exchanger. But you could hear it. Good Luck
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject:
Thanks we will try looking there. May end up having to buy some J tubes for the time being since quality heat exchangers are $$$.
Here's a short video of us firing her up after playing with the carbs for a while. Took a second to get her started since there was quite a bit of fuel in the engine from messing with the linkage.
As a side note, my heat exchangers get smokey after a long drive. I painted them with a high temp paint and it doesn't smell like oil burning. The engine doesn't leak at all. Is this just the paint burning off or could it be related to possible exhaust leak in the exchangers?
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject:
I took 2-3 degrees of timing out of her today before I left for work since she was ticking a little during our test drive yesterday going up a hill in 4th at about 40 mph. I sputtered and coughed and kicked and bucked out of my apartment complex, nearly stalled twice, and ended up cutting the engine and coasting into an abandoned restaurant's parking lot not even 1/2 mile from home. I left the car there from 4pm til now, just got her home by putting a few more degrees of timing back in.
Car still ran like shit on the very short way home, just falls flat on it's face at low rpms/very light throttle.
Not sure if this is related to the 009, or if I need to play with my accelerator pump nut. _________________ My 1970 Beetle Thread
Southern Integrity Aircoolers
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject:
Think I just solved it.
Jess and I went to a diner for some food after we limped Heidi home, I sat there and drew some ideas out on sticky notes and just ruminated on the whole situation.
I have a pulley with a dimple for TDC and a 5* ATDC notch. I had assumed that notch was my TDC notch and marked it as such, marked 7.5* BTDC off of that, and 30* BTDC from it as well. This means all my marks were 5 degrees off. I just went and redid my timing marks.
This also means my valve adjustment needs to be redone. And then I'll have to redo my carb adjustments.
Gonna try to get some of this done tomorrow before work, thankfully I work the day shift tomorrow so if I don't finish before work I'll get it done after work. _________________ My 1970 Beetle Thread
Southern Integrity Aircoolers
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 318 Location: Smyrna DE
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:40 am Post subject:
I enjoy reading about your progress, makes me want to go work on my car that is in winter storge right this minute! _________________ 1968 VW Beetle | Pictures |
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject:
Now we're on the right track!
Re-did my timing marks, re-adjusted my valves, did my timing over again, and my carb adjustments. Made a world of difference. The car is not perfect, it is still a bit "rattly" sounding, the smoke at start up concerns me, and it bogs down some at low rpm. But it's definitely drivable now. A few more days of tuning one thing at a time will get her running nicely.
Jessica and I got up early this morning and did the work on her together, then took a little drive and made a video. If you feel like watching 6 minutes of two kids driving along in their project car, here ya go:
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:08 am Post subject:
Thanks guys really appreciate the support!
I tightened down my valves today, that took care of the rattle. I had them at .007 just to be safe, now at .005 since it never really gets that cold here. Also gave her 2 more degrees of timing to put her at 9* idle and 32* max. This has taken care of probably 85% of the stumble.
At WOT she goes like a scalded cat!! Revs like crazy, doesn't want to stop pulling!
At anything more than 1/4 throttle she is totally drivable, but at really light throttle/really low rpm still stumbles. For example, if I'm in 3rd gear at 25 mph and very lightly get on the gas she stumbles but clears up as the revs increase. If I am coasting with throttles totally shut then hit the gas hard she falls on her face for a second before catching and taking off.
I'm thinking this is just a function of the 009's advance curve trying to catch up with the throttle, I may play with the accelerator pumps and see how much of this I can tune out by giving the carbs a bigger squirt at partial throttle.
Still I'm super happy right now, finally getting my car running right! _________________ My 1970 Beetle Thread
Southern Integrity Aircoolers
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 4905 Location: At the wheel in N.C. U.S.A.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:05 am Post subject:
Sounds like you're on the right track. You can have 100 different oh oh 9's and all will run a little different. Id bet you're at an RPM with that particular distrubutor, that it's just beginning to advance. They can drive you a bit nuts sometimes. _________________ aka Ken
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch "IT" here.
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out.... then let em' rot out.
It's more about the going --- not the showing.
Rebuilt to drive not decorate.
Joined: January 08, 2011 Posts: 1805 Location: Midtown, watching cops lights go by. 74112
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject:
This is awesome dude! Great work! _________________ -Tony
1978Champagne- "Lord Puber"- first love.
1978 Champagne- "Scuttlebutt"
1978 Deluxe Auto Westfalia- "Samsquantch"
Amskeptic wrote:
Anybody dissing any year air-cooled Volkswagen is not on board.
germansupplyscott wrote:
i like auto transmissions in buses. it's a lot easier to roll a joint while driving with an automatic.
I know it's a few bucks more than you probably want to spend, but a Mallory Series 47 (UNILITE with vac) in a bug works great and is highly tunable. With my dual Weber ICH carbs, I like 4 degrees at idle peaking to 30 around 3500 with just a little vacuum help to manage the stumble away which has a tunable spring tension via an allen wrench. You might want to try some 1.25 Scat ratio rockers to get some more idle oomph and tone. _________________ '73 Super "Buggly" blue, not stock 1600 and quite the beater
'73 Super beige, 2270C RAT motor
Joined: December 20, 2003 Posts: 930 Location: Jeannette, PA 15644
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject:
Awesome job!!! Glad to see it running good. It also sounds very good!!!! I nice to see the look of happiness knowing you just fixed you own VW!
Congrats!!
You'll learn how to drive with an 009 distributer and dual carbs. It's takes some practice but you'll get use to it. The wife and me both know how to drive with 009. Stay smooth with the gas and 009 will catch up. They are nice distributors and keep on working for years. Once there setup!
I noticed in the video your letting the engine bog down. 25 mph in 3rd gear is to low. John Muir's idiot guide talks about shifting gears. VW engine like to stay in the higher rpms. Shift down instead of staying in an higher gear longer. _________________ Fresh Air VW Car Club
New Pittsburgh, PA Car Club. 100% free!!!
club website link
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshAirVWCarClub
thesamba link
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=363031
Look us up on Facebook, too
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject:
Submariner-Thanks, a lot of time and energy (and cash) into this bug. I've learned more about engines and tuning from this little dub than my two Mercedes put together.
Davy-I've considered swapping to a pertronix but I'm not sure. Honestly I think with some perseverance and tuning I can get the 009 to play nice with my kads. We shall see.
Conrad-Thanks man, you've been a big help throughout this thread! I was mostly trying to see how "boggy" the engine got at low rpms in that video. I have found that if I keep the revs up and work the gearbox the car is a treat to drive.
I drove her to work tonight, turned the accelerator pump nuts in 1 turn on both sides and that helped. Left work and headed to the bar and gave her another 2* timing before hand. Im now at 10ish* idle and 30-32* max. The stumble is almost gone. About the only time I can get her to stumble is if I do something like floor it in 4th gear at 40mph-she will stumble for a bit then catch up and take off.
The car still sounds "rattly", it doesn't sound like valves, just sounds...rattly. No other word to describe it. If you watch the last video I posted you can hear what I'm talking about-especially at low rpm the car just sort of rattles along. I hit a point in the revs where the rattles give way to a bassy carb gurgle/power sound. But at low revs, sometimes at idle, and light throttle it just sounds rattly.
Ideas? Possible exhaust leak still? Or am I just expecting too much from an aircooled engine design with its roots in the 1930's? _________________ My 1970 Beetle Thread
Southern Integrity Aircoolers
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:03 am Post subject:
Double checked the valves again, most of them were still spot on at .005 but a few were at .007 or .008. Reset them all to .005 and she sounds and pulls much nicer. Stumble is basically gone and the car is very nice to drive.
I made a little video but did it with my point and shoot since Jessica is not here with her fancy camera. Can't decide if I want to post it though since the sound and video quality is not that great. _________________ My 1970 Beetle Thread
Southern Integrity Aircoolers
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 1069 Location: Anderson, SC
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:44 am Post subject:
Paul, glad to see that you've got it running better now! Looks like yall were having a blast in that last vid- that's what it's all about! Hope to see you at the meeting this Saturday!
For the stumble down low, how are you syncing the linkage? I think you said that you're adjusting when both are at full throttle? I adjust mine by taking the linkage off and making sure they both are pulling the same amount of air through them at idle, then put the linkage on and prop the gas pedal up slightly with a broom stick so that the carbs are slightly open, so the engine is running 2000-2500 rpm. Then I sync the linkage so that the carbs are flowing the same at part throttle. That will get the carb linkage tuned for how you'll actually be driving it- you don't use full throttle that often so tune the linkage for the actual driving conditions. I bet this will help clear up the soggy bottom end power. _________________ Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
-Sir Henry Royce, co-founder of Rolls-Royce
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 1069 Location: Anderson, SC
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:57 am Post subject:
HeidiHo wrote:
The car still sounds "rattly", it doesn't sound like valves, just sounds...rattly. No other word to describe it. If you watch the last video I posted you can hear what I'm talking about-especially at low rpm the car just sort of rattles along. I hit a point in the revs where the rattles give way to a bassy carb gurgle/power sound. But at low revs, sometimes at idle, and light throttle it just sounds rattly.
Ideas? Possible exhaust leak still? Or am I just expecting too much from an aircooled engine design with its roots in the 1930's?
What cam is in the engine, and does it have steel/chromoly pushrods or aluminum? My 1679's valve train (FK-41 cam, chromoly pushrods, and 1.4 rockers) is a good bit louder than stock, even with the valves adjusted right, that's just the nature of bigger cams and steel pushrods. You mentioned setting your valves to .005, but if you've got chromoly/steel rods they need to be set to loose zero. Check them with a magnet (the shaft part, not the tip) if you're not sure.
Another thing you can check is the side play on the rockers. They should be set to .005", if they're loose they can tick just like a loose valve. If you've got an aluminum center spacer then the center two rockers need to be set looser than .005 side play to allow the aluminum extra room to grow since expand more than steel as they heat up- .005" should be the running clearance when warm. Not sure how much extra clearance aluminum spacers need though. _________________ Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
-Sir Henry Royce, co-founder of Rolls-Royce
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:44 am Post subject:
Hey John, thanks for stopping by. Hopefully we will make it down for the meet Saturday!
I'm syncing the carbs with the linkage off at idle using a sync tool. Then I put the linkage back on and sort of eyeball it to make sure they open and close at the same time while also watching for the carbs to return to the idle stops. I think part of the problem is just that the stock kadron linkage has so much slop. It is hard to keep everything in good alignment.
It's a stock cam and a stock valvetrain. _________________ My 1970 Beetle Thread
Southern Integrity Aircoolers
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