Joined: January 05, 2011 Posts: 6 Location: Monterey, CA - Bali Indonesia
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: Laser 917 Engine Solution
I recently purchased an Elite Laser 917, and I must say, that I love it more and more each day. It was very well built in its original form, but the years have taken their toll.
I purchased the vehicle without a motor. It was originally set up with a Corvair 180hp Turbo, and the heavy duty 2nd Gen, Corvair rear end. The front end is VW Ball joint/disc brake, custom tube chassis, and of course the Corvair rear. The rear sits on 295/50/15, and ridiculous 275/50/15 on the fronts.
The rear end is complete with transaxle is still there. I am trying to come up with a power solution, and debating about going back to corvair, or scratching the rear end and coming up with a completely new solution. The corvair has a reverse rotation, which limits the engine solutions for that transaxle.
I think the corvair could provide some honest horsepower, with some bang for the buck, but I am curious what some other brains might think about it.
There is plenty of room to had a water cooled solution also.
The corvair rear end is very nice, and a considerable upgrade from the VW IRS, so it would be nice to keep it.
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 8877 Location: State College, PA
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject:
I dont know is a conversion is available, but another one would be a Suby turbo engine.... _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1776.
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Joined: February 06, 2004 Posts: 1385 Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject:
Sounds like a really cool project! An air-cooled Porsche 6 of most any size would have the right sounds and vibe but is costly. I'm 99% sure you'd have to ditch the Corvair trans though. in fact, for most any engine swap you'll probably have to get a different trans.
Since you don't have a traditional engine compartment, you can fit most any shape of engine in there. A Honda Vtec V6 might be a really fun option that will not break the bank. It doesn't make mega tons of torque so you don't need a monster transmission. In fact an older Porsche 5 speed may be a good companion for such. _________________ www.LoCashRacing.org
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Joined: June 20, 2009 Posts: 269 Location: Palm Beach Gardens
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject:
Lo Cash John said it.
My Wife has a 2006 Honda Pilot.
It's a heavy, front wheel drive SUV, but that Honda V6 launches like a rocket when you step on the gas.
Find a wrecked or rolled late model Pilot at a salvage yard and install the engine and trans in the back of your car. It should be fairly easy to fabricate straight axles for the rear. Mount a radiator up front like a Pantera.
In a light car like that, it probably would be too fast for the street !
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 2806 Location: Capital, North Carolina
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:49 am Post subject:
...and don't forget the complexities in engine management systems that the newer engine will entail. It ain't a simple 'bolt-it-in-and-go' proposition.
bryan _________________ Internet listed credentials impress no one but Mom...
Joined: July 02, 2003 Posts: 488 Location: Florida Space Coast
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject:
If you swapped it to mid-engine, would the corvair trans work with a normal rotation engine? _________________ 1974 Standard Beetle to Baja Bug
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Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 1914 Location: Downingtown, PA
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject:
Yes it would, there were mid-engine Corvairs back in the day using small block motors, but changes were made to the transmission to make that happen. I'm fairly certain you can swap one end for end, and you'd run into the same issues as swapping the ring gear on a VW transaxle. And, of course, it would only work with a 3 or 4 speed trans. And your shift pattern would be backwards. And Laser's don't have a whole lotta room between the normal engine configuration and their cockpit firewalls. _________________ www.nationalsterling.org www.tamartedesign.com
Joined: January 03, 2012 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject:
I would be dropping in a 6 cylinder EZ30 3 lite Subaru motor and matching 5 speed. This package is compact, reasonably lightweight and retains the flat motor that packages so well in these cars.
You don't have to deal with turbo heat issues and have a smooth torquey drivetrain that blasts off the line, shifts well and also cruises in 5th. You'll get a great sound out of that engine with a sports exhaust as a bonus. _________________ http://www.subarugears.com
Joined: June 20, 2009 Posts: 269 Location: Palm Beach Gardens
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:16 am Post subject:
Subarugears wrote:
I would be dropping in a 6 cylinder EZ30 3 lite Subaru motor and matching 5 speed. This package is compact, reasonably lightweight and retains the flat motor that packages so well in these cars.
You don't have to deal with turbo heat issues and have a smooth torquey drivetrain that blasts off the line, shifts well and also cruises in 5th. You'll get a great sound out of that engine with a sports exhaust as a bonus.
That sounds a lot easier than the Honda swap I mentioned.
What model and year cars had the EZ30 engines ?
Joined: January 03, 2012 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:44 am Post subject:
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Subaru Tribeca
(all depending on the years, options and which market).
There is even an EZ36 in the Tribeca which is a 3.6 litre version of the EZ30 3 litre, using offset conrods to achieve the extra stroke.
The EZ30 engine is plentiful on Ebay and at wrecking yards.
Usually with an auto transmission but bolts up to any Subaru manual transmission as well. _________________ http://www.subarugears.com
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 2806 Location: Capital, North Carolina
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:33 am Post subject:
And how do you cost-effectively resolve the engine management computer interface? Then consider having to integrate the Subaru trans to the Corvair suspension, unless you fab a completely new rear suspension, opening another can-o'worms. Will your state require you to carry over the emissions equipment based on the year of Subaru engine?
Points to consider - if you stay with the Corvair trans & suspension, I'd look to going back with a Corvair motor. If you choose to go the water-cooled route, then you might consider finding/making an adapter to run a Honda B16 or B18-series motor -
bryan _________________ Internet listed credentials impress no one but Mom...
Joined: January 03, 2012 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject:
You cost effectively resolve the engine management interface by running the standard Subaru ECU and harness that comes with the engine. Strip out the wiring that powers the dash etc and you're done. Plenty of people have blazed that trail before. And I bet plenty more times than getting a Honda B series ECU to work in a different car to the Honda.
Why do you need to consider integrating the Subaru trans to the corvair suspension? It's an IRS transaxle just like the Corvair one, the VW one, Porsche ones. Forgive my lack of knowledge on just exactly what has been done to this chassis, but isn't it a VW-based chassis? _________________ http://www.subarugears.com
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 2806 Location: Capital, North Carolina
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject:
Subarugears wrote:
You cost effectively resolve the engine management interface by running the standard Subaru ECU and harness that comes with the engine. Strip out the wiring that powers the dash etc and you're done. Plenty of people have blazed that trail before. And I bet plenty more times than getting a Honda B series ECU to work in a different car to the Honda.
Why do you need to consider integrating the Subaru trans to the corvair suspension? It's an IRS transaxle just like the Corvair one, the VW one, Porsche ones. Forgive my lack of knowledge on just exactly what has been done to this chassis, but isn't it a VW-based chassis?
From the poster's original comment:
"I purchased the vehicle without a motor. It was originally set up with a Corvair 180hp Turbo, and the heavy duty 2nd Gen, Corvair rear end. The front end is VW Ball joint/disc brake, custom tube chassis, and of course the Corvair rear."
Rail buggy / off-road racing crowd has been using the Honda engines in their cars for years. OBD-1 ECU's are easier to setup than later factory OBD-2 setups... I don't know how you do it in Oz, but the Honda engines were adapted to buggies here in the States well before the Subaru EJ & newer series motors were being adapted... but the Honda motors were being joined to VW/Hewland/Webster/etc., transaxles.
Reason for mentioning the Honda motors is because the early motors already rotate in the proper direction for adaptation to the Corvair transmission.
Joined: January 03, 2012 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject:
Wow, interesting setup! If that corvair rear end is still in place then yeah, agree 100%, keep the corvair trans and try for a B series Honda - as long as you like high revving motors. I personally like something with a bit more capacity and low down torque - I think a flat 6 in a 917 would look hot. Corvair, Porsche, Subaru, whatever.
Regarding OBD1 and OBD2 motors in Australia, doesn't seem to be much of an issue, just strip what's not needed from the harness and transplant everything including cats and oxygen sensors. Seems that people are generally starting to defeat the real late model CAN-bus stuff now too, (switching off or fooling the CAN-bus portion of code in the ECU) so all the real late model engines. ECU's and transmissions are being used in conversions. I see a couple of turbo diesel conversions are getting up and running as well.
Joined: January 03, 2012 Posts: 139 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject:
Now that is sweet! I read that the Can-am 917 turbo motors had 1100hp and up to 1580hp in qualifying trim.
I have seen dyno pulls of twin turbo EZ30 motors hit 1000bhp, so while it's short of some cylinders, it's not short on power. I don't think the Corvair transmission would be up to that though..... _________________ http://www.subarugears.com
Joined: August 01, 2010 Posts: 765 Location: SF Bay Area, Ca.
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject:
Subarugears wrote:
....I have seen dyno pulls of twin turbo EZ30 motors hit 1000bhp, so while it's short of some cylinders, it's not short on power. I don't think the Corvair transmission would be up to that though.....
What transmission will hold up when they are flogging that 1000HP beast?
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