New bay window owner/Watercooled Conversion

chazz79 · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject:

Por 15 or simular products aren't that expensive. That's all I did to my front floor area and it's still holding up great. Once it's dry you really can't paint over the crap but it's really not necessary because the carpet covers it anyway. Imho it's a permanent solution.
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One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:05 am Post subject:

Had a cold front move through this morning, so it's too cold to paint. I'm going to see if the phosphoric acid did the trick. Black=done, rust=another coat, then re-evaluate tomorrow.

Last night I got my cut rear apron section mounted back to the body. My phone ate the pics, but basically I welded little tabs on either side of the apron, then put a riv-nut on each side of the body. 2 1/4-20 screws, and now I have an apron and a latching engine lid. I somehow lost my bumper bolts, so I went to ACE and got some replacements. I then tried to mount the bumper but much to my dismay, my replacement bumper has the tow hook notch on the right side, bus has tow hook on the left side Sad

I'm thinking I'll just cut the tow hook off the bumper bracket. The brackets have been hacked up and welded on anyway (engine mount and hitch), and I'll be adding some heavy rings to my engine mount anyway for safety chains on the hitch.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:46 am Post subject:

My wife and I took the bus across the state last weekend, and it did great! On our trip over, we got stuck in traffic many times, and ran through rain. The coolant temp never got over 200 in traffic, and cruising at 60 the coolant stayed at 184. The windshield wipers also worked very well which was a surprise and a relief since I never thought to test them ahead of time.

The trip home Sunday we took the back roads with friends of ours who also have a sage green westy. Much more enjoyable trip without traffic. Worked out the wipers most of the way home due to light rains.

I don't have a working odometer (speedo cable rusted) but I google mapped our trip and based on fuel consumption, we are getting about 21 mpg out of the motor. I'm fine with that, since it's better than our previous long range/tow vehicle, but I think I can improve it a bit. I'm not running a VSS, so the motor has no decel fuel cut off. People are saying that can be worth several MPG, and I think that's definitely the case on a stick shift vehicle with short gears.

The only real issue I had is the stupid throttle cable. The pedal is nice and free, but the spring on the throttle body just doesn't have the pull to return to idle. I have an extra spring at the TB, and it works OK when cold, but after driving, the spring heats up and loses some tension, so the motor still won't return to idle. Not only that, but the added spring really ups the pedal effort, and makes it hard to maintain an even speed.

I'm going to try to tweak the stock throttle body spring some this week to put some more tension in it. The only other thought I had was switching to a morse push/pull cable, but I'm not sure that will do the trick, and will be quite expensive on a gamble that it will work.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Kirk · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:30 am Post subject:

tristessa · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject:

http://www.rjes.com/html/vss.html
No idea if the Suby VSS signal is compatible with your setup but that might be an option.

Take the extra spring off the TB and put it under the floor on the pedal end of the cable. The weenie stock spring under the pedal wasn't enough to pull the cable back on mine, then I had to disable one of the springs on my TB .. VW put way more spring tension on the A2 throttle bodies than I need for my application.

RatCamper · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject:

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:01 am Post subject:

Well, I said I'd post the good with the bad. I don't want to portray the wonderful world of watercooled swaps as all sunshine and roses.

I figure this is gods way of punishing me for all of the crap I've been talking to the aircooled diehards recently, but I had some problems with my cooling system yesterday.

I drove the bus into town in the afternoon, the drive over was fine. When I was heading home, I looked down and saw the coolant temp shooting up fast. It got up to 250, then dropped like a rock down to 150, got up to 180 and stayed there. So I'm thinking the thermostat was stuck closed for a little bit.

Later that evening I went to the store about 5 miles away, I wanted to take the bus to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Sure enough, leaving the neighborhood, coolant temps get up to 250, but this time stay there. I pull into a gas station, seeing a little trail of water behind me. I let it sit with the key on and fan running for a few minutes to drop the temps, then made it the rest of the way to the grocery store.

After the store, I sat in the bus for about 10 minutes in the parking lot letting the engine cool. I put about a gallon of water in it, and started to head home. Coolant temps were still 250, and as I got in the neighborhood, crept up to 260, eventually getting as high as 270 for a few seconds as I nursed it home.

My theory is the thermostat stuck fully closed the first time, then sprung open. On the second trip, I think it only partially opened, limiting water flow through the motor causing the heat to build up. I know it's not an error with the gauge or coolant temp sensor because the motor felt hot, was pissing coolant past the radiator cap, and my coolant tubes were HOT. The fan was also running as it should.

Considering the symptoms, I'd say it has to be the thermostat. After my coffee I'm headed to the parts store for a replacement. Got to make it to a show this weekend!
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:16 am Post subject:

Not a watercooled bus swap pro here but from what I have read it seems with the miles of coolant needed to do this, the thermostat tends to get angry. The bus will get hot, thermostat will open and 'shock' the system with cool water from the rest of the system. The work around for this is to loop coolant in a way that helps to prevent this. Not knowing much about your ecotec I can't make a suggestion how to do it, but if a new t stat doesn't help it may be something to think about
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Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:06 am Post subject:

Not sure what you mean but I have the heater hoses looped right at the thermostat housing. I'm most troubled at the thought of the thermostat going bad in the 20-30 k miles this motor has. I hope I don't have gummed up coolant in the system.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

danfromsyr · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:28 am Post subject:

we had trouble with getttig airbound right at the Tstat because in the V6 it's right at the top of the engine..
I had to add a bypass to the burp bottle to help. and we never really had it sorted out 110%.
but the american V6 T-stat location may be your bigger culprit.. it's presuming that there's still a radiator inlet higher than that point.

keep us updated.
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Upstate NY 2013 VWCCNY events
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Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:36 am Post subject:

Looks like it's resolved. I swapped the t-stat, took it for a drive (including full throttle romps up to 5500 in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, and it stays at 190.

When I pulled the old t-stat, I could see marks where the brass slug on the bottom was dragging on the side of the cage, seemingly confirming my suspicions.

Luckily, on the ecotec 2.2, the t-stat is not only easy to replace, but in the middle of the motor height wise. The outlet from the motor is the highest spot, which is where my fill cap is. I only have one burp point on the whole setup, and it's the radiator inlet pipe which rises up about 1/2" from the low point. I welded a nut to the top of the pipe over a hole, and plugged it with a bolt. I can do it on my knees from the side of the bus.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Stuartzickefoose · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:38 am Post subject:

Nice!

_________________
MINE - 1978 Westfalia ~ Maisy ~ FI, Hydraulic Valves, Electronic Points, 2.0 (NEED A SET OF HEADS, PM ME IF YOU HAVE A SET)

DAD's - 1972 Westfalia ~ Sticky ~ 1.7(?) 914 motor, allison electronic ignition, electric fuel pump, dual webers w/o choke.

“Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

“Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”

tristessa · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:28 am Post subject:

Yeah, I had t-stat issues last December and overheated the engine, shortly before the plastic-tank radiator disaster. It failed in a "closed" position and my always-on heater core flow wasn't enough to cool the entire engine.

skills@eurocar has a nice theory about the volume of coolant and all, but I've got less volume/distance than a diesel Vanagon .. and the same thermostat as a diesel Vanagon.

chazz79 · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:34 am Post subject:

I have to wonder if there is a thermostat quality control issue out there. My popped head gasket was due to a thermostat failing closed.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject:

Well my new one is a Stant but says made in China right on it.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Stuartzickefoose · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject:

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:58 am Post subject:

The one I got was $20. I hope it's a fail safe. I did notice the brass slug is bullet shaped on the new one, meaning it's less likely to drag on the side of the cage.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Stuartzickefoose · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:34 am Post subject:

it you look closely for two little tabs on the sides, it would look as though if it opens to much the tabs would catch, thats a fail safe. they are like 2mm tabs, not very big, but they catch on the edge of the moving part and hold it unless you pry it back open (reset it)
_________________
MINE - 1978 Westfalia ~ Maisy ~ FI, Hydraulic Valves, Electronic Points, 2.0 (NEED A SET OF HEADS, PM ME IF YOU HAVE A SET)

DAD's - 1972 Westfalia ~ Sticky ~ 1.7(?) 914 motor, allison electronic ignition, electric fuel pump, dual webers w/o choke.

“Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

“Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”

RatCamper · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject:

For the people with failed thermostats on water cooled vehicles, are you "bench testing" them before installation?

Honestly I'm super paranoid about spontaneous cooling system failure but I seem to have things set up reasonably on my Subaru engine. It's based on whatever the person that converted it did but with the addition of a heater circuit and some minor alterations to the header tank setup including what should be an air bleed hose. Not sure if it works in practice to be honest but I hope it does.

When I was cleaning up the eBay manifold to a state which it could be used I got it a new thermostat. The center of the old one had been punched out. Guess they either had a failure or wanted more cooling. With the current setup it seems to sit around 90*C under normal conditions which is exactly where I wanted it to be. The thermo fan kicks in a couple of degrees above that.

Back to symptoms, air locks and cavitation in general can cause the same thing. Another fun thing which I have witnessed on the Ford is when it does a coolant dump, no coolant reaches the sensor so I'm oblivious until I'm guessing super heated steam hits the sensor and it pegs. It has been accompanied by a suiting eruption of EPA unfriendly steam, a knot in my stomach and swearing.
_________________
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:19 am Post subject:

Well we took the bus on another trip last weekend, this time to the Lakeland VW classic, only 55 miles one way. We had one big scare, but otherwise the trip went well.

When I replaced the thermostat, I filled the system with water, it took quite a bit, I drove the bus around, it got to 190, so I parked it. The next evening, we go to leave, start driving, and the bus gets up around 250 and stays there. We made it to a gas station about 5 miles away, and thanks to my friend Louis for talking me off the bridge I was about to jump off of, we got it fixed. I climbed under the bus and loosened my bleed bolt on the coolant pipe. After that, we were able to add another gallon of water, and it ran 188-190 the rest of the weekend. The bus is really a joy to drive.

Sorry to those of you I wanted to meet at Lakeland. My Grandfather passed away thursday evening, and his services were at 1pm Sunday. We had to get up, pack, and get on the road by 10am, so I missed out on the activities.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

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