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krusher
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7618
Location: california
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
hi krusher . funny you should post today i was thinking the same thing . i was at the VW dealer today taking to a sales person . we were talking about gas going to $4.00 a gal. last time it went over $4.00 the dealers were getting a lot of gas guzzlers like trucks. suvs . jeeps . vans .traded in on cars that got better than 30 mpg . this time a big 0 . it looks like people in the USA that have gas guzzlers are willing to keep them . you make a good point . here in ohio people drive over the speed limit . a lot not every one ( and sometimes i am one of them ) are free way speed is 65 MPH trun pike is 70 mph . i drive about 5 mph over the speed limit most of the time lol . if me and others would drive the speed limit all the time we all would save on gas . i am not saying its right. but here in the USA every one is in a hurry. we are in a big rush to get some were fast lol we dont like to wait . if we go to a fast food store we want are food fast we dont like to wait. lol its just the way it is in the USA from what i see every day . maybe if gas is $9.00 gal.in the USA people might buy cars that get 40 + mpg and drive the speed limit . but krusher its not going to happen over night here in the USA i have not herd the name peugeot in years when i lived in hawaii there were a lot of peugeot real nice cars take care spencerfvee......
| krusher wrote: |
| spencerfvee wrote: |
your right i for got the UK got there oil cut off by Iran. when one thinks they have high gas cost . theres allways some one that has higher gas cost .whats the out look. is gas in the UK going to go any higher than 2.05 a litre this summer ? and are the UK guys thinking of building motors that get better MPG. or are uk guys just dealing with the high cost of gas ? spencerfvee
| andy198712 wrote: |
ha..........ha............ha....
you dont know how lucky you are!!!
in the uk petrol is $2.05 a LITRE!!!! |
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We have been dealing with it for 10 years+ , I love visiting california in the winters and seeing the adds on tv where there getting you excited about 30MPG highway 
We see that as a gas guzzler.
I just did a surf road trip this weekend. I have a 1993 Peugeot 106 ($800) with a 950cc engine its got a solex 31 pict so not even FI.
I drive it on the motorway at 60mph and for a 3rd of the miles it was on country lanes weighed down with 3 people and all our gear, which meant 2nd and 3rd gear a lot.
After 775 miles I got home and worked out my mileage. 51mpg (42USAmpg)
Apart from a vw buss with a 1.6, I have never in the uk owned a car with an engine bigger than a 1.3.
Any country can only sell cars the market will support, all I see in the USA is the market still supporting gas guzzlers, and some pretend "economy"  cars |
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I'm not really a Peugeot fan, it was just a cheap economical clean runaround when I needed a car.
Here is the 2012 107 (20 years on from my car)
Base model: $12,800
1000cc 68 hp, highway 61mpg (74uk/mpg)
I would love to do a 1000cc aircooled 50hp engine for a bug.
.jpg "Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.")
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spencerfvee
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Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 1292
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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hi krusher i just dont understand why we dont get cars like this. in the USA $12,000 it would be a great work car . we are so behind of cars that get good MPG . thanks for the picture and info spencerfvee.......................
| krusher wrote: |
| spencerfvee wrote: |
hi krusher . funny you should post today i was thinking the same thing . i was at the VW dealer today taking to a sales person . we were talking about gas going to $4.00 a gal. last time it went over $4.00 the dealers were getting a lot of gas guzzlers like trucks. suvs . jeeps . vans .traded in on cars that got better than 30 mpg . this time a big 0 . it looks like people in the USA that have gas guzzlers are willing to keep them . you make a good point . here in ohio people drive over the speed limit . a lot not every one ( and sometimes i am one of them ) are free way speed is 65 MPH trun pike is 70 mph . i drive about 5 mph over the speed limit most of the time lol . if me and others would drive the speed limit all the time we all would save on gas . i am not saying its right. but here in the USA every one is in a hurry. we are in a big rush to get some were fast lol we dont like to wait . if we go to a fast food store we want are food fast we dont like to wait. lol its just the way it is in the USA from what i see every day . maybe if gas is $9.00 gal.in the USA people might buy cars that get 40 + mpg and drive the speed limit . but krusher its not going to happen over night here in the USA i have not herd the name peugeot in years when i lived in hawaii there were a lot of peugeot real nice cars take care spencerfvee......
| krusher wrote: |
| spencerfvee wrote: |
your right i for got the UK got there oil cut off by Iran. when one thinks they have high gas cost . theres allways some one that has higher gas cost .whats the out look. is gas in the UK going to go any higher than 2.05 a litre this summer ? and are the UK guys thinking of building motors that get better MPG. or are uk guys just dealing with the high cost of gas ? spencerfvee
| andy198712 wrote: |
ha..........ha............ha....
you dont know how lucky you are!!!
in the uk petrol is $2.05 a LITRE!!!! |
|
We have been dealing with it for 10 years+ , I love visiting california in the winters and seeing the adds on tv where there getting you excited about 30MPG highway
We see that as a gas guzzler.
I just did a surf road trip this weekend. I have a 1993 Peugeot 106 ($800) with a 950cc engine its got a solex 31 pict so not even FI.
I drive it on the motorway at 60mph and for a 3rd of the miles it was on country lanes weighed down with 3 people and all our gear, which meant 2nd and 3rd gear a lot.
After 775 miles I got home and worked out my mileage. 51mpg (42USAmpg)
Apart from a vw buss with a 1.6, I have never in the uk owned a car with an engine bigger than a 1.3.
Any country can only sell cars the market will support, all I see in the USA is the market still supporting gas guzzlers, and some pretend "economy" cars |
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I'm not really a Peugeot fan, it was just a cheap economical clean runaround when I needed a car.
Here is the 2012 107 (20 years on from my car)
Base model: $12,800
1000cc 68 hp, highway 61mpg (74uk/mpg)
I would love to do a 1000cc aircooled 50hp engine for a bug.
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krusher
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7618
Location: california
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Its just like we were discussing, your market wont support them.
Are UK cars are 99% stick with no air con.
I saw you got the ford fiesta now over there, and it shows what your market will hold by the fact you only got the model with the biggest engine and auto.
Its also seems that euro/usa emissions and crash testing have different goal posts, so it does not make economical sense to redesign a car for the american market.
I would like to see the prius drivers have a test drive in the small euro cars.
No one buys prius's in the uk 40mpg gas guzzler!!!!
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(06:54:29) BoomsVW: "i always feel free down there" |
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jtwaller
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2012
Posts: 245
Location: HIDEAWAY, TX
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: |
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People in the UK can brag about their 50mpg gocarts all you want, but at the end of the day it all adds up to the same money. You pay around $8.00 a gallon (~130 pence a liter) and we are paying $3.50-$4.00. You get 50-60mpg we get 20-30mpg. I'd rather the comfort of my Pickup and be able to go to the hardware store and actually bring my equipment home instead of pay someone to deliver it. It's a moot point! 
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| the more you stroke it the better it feals.bore it out while your there, you will like it if you do it corectly. watch out for the ones that are used and abused, they can be headaches.well all of them can be headaches. |
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LUNATIK
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2005
Posts: 308
Location: Lockeford, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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I have followed this thread and decided to put something together with spare parts that I have in my garage; just to see if I can build a mileage engine as well. I will like to share the parts that I will be using for this engine.
Stock case
69mm stock crank
Stock rods or 5.4 rods... I rather use the stock ones.
88mm Pistons (the new ones)
W110 Cam w stock gears
DP Heads 39x32 ported and polished w aprox 50cc chambers with Single HD Springs
010 or 019 dizzy
1.1 stock rockers or 1.25 ratio
Tri-mill exhaust
Stock or lighten flywheel
ON carburation I have been thinking in using or Dual ICT, 36 dells, or 40 webers... I have to dig the carbs out of the boxes to know each set setup.
I am going to try to keep the deck heigh to "0" that will put the compression ration to 9.4
It will be installed in a 66 bug with stock tranny... hopefully by Sunday.
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Be careful what you brag about because it may bite your ass in the end. |
Last edited by LUNATIK on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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boxkiteflyer
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 129
Location: Taylorsville, KY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| It costs more to drive in the USA because distances are greater. We don't have mass transit sytems and we don't have 'local' economies. By that I mean: bread store, clothing store, etc. within walking distance. Got to Germany, Japan and the UK and you will understand. This isn't a criticism but just fact. We have to drive to get things for the most part. Our use of the automobile has evolved over time to be what it is and it will take time to re-evolve it. Gas prices haven't been the financial burden in the past as they have become now. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 1292
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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i just read on yahoo the USA is about ready to cut all of Irans oil sales off so Iran could not sell oil to any one this could lead to $6.00 gal or more if it back fires on the USA. my friends full size pick up truck only gets 16 mpg . my friend S10 pick up V6 only gets 22 mpg they only drive them when they have to most of the time they sit parked .small cars are comming like it or not . lol i must ask what are you doing on a vw air cooled web site. if you dont like go cart size cars lol i just had to ask lol all in fun spencerfvee
| jtwaller wrote: |
| People in the UK can brag about their 50mpg gocarts all you want, but at the end of the day it all adds up to the same money. You pay around $8.00 a gallon (~130 pence a liter) and we are paying $3.50-$4.00. You get 50-60mpg we get 20-30mpg. I'd rather the comfort of my Pickup and be able to go to the hardware store and actually bring my equipment home instead of pay someone to deliver it. It's a moot point! |
Last edited by spencerfvee on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 1292
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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hi your motor sounds real good to me the only thing to look out for if your putting your motor in a bug is that a wider motor can sometimes not fit and you have to cut the body sheet metal so it fits i ran into this with my new motor. i used 5.5 rods it was a bear to fit into my bug i had to cut some sheet metal so it would fit. good luck. let use know how you do on MPG spencerfvee,
| LUNATIK wrote: |
I have followed this thread and decided to put something together with spare parts that I have in my garage; just to see if I can build a mileage engine as well. I will like to share the parts that I will be using for this engine.
Stock case
69mm stock crank
Stock rods or 5.4 rods... I rather use the stock ones.
88mm Pistons (the new ones)
W110 Cam w stock gears
DP Heads 39x32 ported and polished w aprox 50cc chambers with Single HD Springs
010 or 019 dizzy
1.1 stock rockers or 1.25 ratio
Tri-mill exhaust
Stock or lighten flywheel
ON carburation I have been thinking in using or Dual ICT, 36 dells, or 40 webers... I have to dig the carbs out of the boxes to know each set setup.
I am going to try to keep the deck heigh to "0" that will put the compression ration to 9.4
It will be installed in a 66 bug with stock tranny... hopefully by Sunday. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 1292
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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yea we did get the ford fiesta it looks like a mazda lol there selling so so there asking to much money for them i think there selling for $18,000 not sure i will look at the ford dealer and let you know . i better get back on air cooled MPG motors befor some one gets upset lol lol you know how some of these samba guys are lol spencerfvee
Are UK cars are 99% stick with no air con.
I saw you got the ford fiesta now over there, and it shows what your market will hold by the fact you only got the model with the biggest engine and auto.
Its also seems that euro/usa emissions and crash testing have different goal posts, so it
| krusher wrote: |
Its just like we were discussing, your market wont support them does not make economical sense to redesign a car for the american market.
I would like to see the prius drivers have a test drive in the small euro cars.
No one buys prius's in the uk 40mpg gas guzzler!!!! |
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krusher
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7618
Location: california
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| jtwaller wrote: |
| People in the UK can brag about their 50mpg gocarts all you want, but at the end of the day it all adds up to the same money. You pay around $8.00 a gallon (~130 pence a liter) and we are paying $3.50-$4.00. You get 50-60mpg we get 20-30mpg. I'd rather the comfort of my Pickup and be able to go to the hardware store and actually bring my equipment home instead of pay someone to deliver it. It's a moot point! |
See that shows exactly why the american market wont support these cars. You gas is half the price so your happy to squander it.
Typically comparing apples and oranges for a USA win!!!
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(06:54:29) BoomsVW: "i always feel free down there" |
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bugguy076
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Dover, PA.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| The 1679 motor you are building is what I had in my '67 bug for 3 years. Running "0" deck sounds good, but the .040 deck is for expansion. If you cut the step out of the head it's going to bang the pistons into the heads. The motor should get 28 mpg, if you keep your foot out of it. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 1292
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: |
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hi krusher dont mind him hes from texas . they do things differnt in texas lol thats for sure lol spencerfvee.................
| krusher wrote: |
| jtwaller wrote: |
| People in the UK can brag about their 50mpg gocarts all you want, but at the end of the day it all adds up to the same money. You pay around $8.00 a gallon (~130 pence a liter) and we are paying $3.50-$4.00. You get 50-60mpg we get 20-30mpg. I'd rather the comfort of my Pickup and be able to go to the hardware store and actually bring my equipment home instead of pay someone to deliver it. It's a moot point! |
See that shows exactly why the american market wont support these cars. You gas is half the price so your happy to squander it.
Typically comparing apples and oranges for a USA win!!! |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 5407
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| LUNATIK wrote: |
I have followed this thread and decided to put something together with spare parts that I have in my garage; just to see if I can build a mileage engine as well. I will like to share the parts that I will be using for this engine.
Stock case
69mm stock crank
Stock rods or 5.4 rods... I rather use the stock ones.
88mm Pistons (the new ones)
W110 Cam w stock gears
DP Heads 39x32 ported and polished w aprox 50cc chambers with Single HD Springs
010 or 019 dizzy
1.1 stock rockers or 1.25 ratio
Tri-mill exhaust
Stock or lighten flywheel
ON carburation I have been thinking in using or Dual ICT, 36 dells, or 40 webers... I have to dig the carbs out of the boxes to know each set setup.
I am going to try to keep the deck heigh to "0" that will put the compression ration to 9.4
It will be installed in a 66 bug with stock tranny... hopefully by Sunday. |
I ran "zero cylinder deck" on my build but the head still had the .040 step. If you dont have the step use a copper head gasket.
I would use the stock weight flywheel and the 36 dells. I tested ICTs on my engine and the mpg was the same but the DRLAs gave me more power and throttle response if I needed it. |
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Cal Bug
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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I have been collecting data on all the previous mileage motors, like Karcey's 55 mpg at 55 mph Ghia. I believe in the Zippo lighter principal. Keep it simple, keep it close to stock, make sure when it breaks, you can get parts for it at Auto Zone.
Stock 1600, ie. 1585, cheap parts, small engine volume.
Stock heads, dual ports, unless you can find a nice set of singles.
09 dist. Good advance curve, stock points.
Stock rockers, no need to make your cam any bigger with ratio rockers.
1 3/8 exhaust, into a single quiet pack. All cylinders balanced, but not too much flow, to blow your fuel out the tail pipe and kill low end torque.
Dual carbs, ICT, Kadron, Dell 36, or HPMX 40. A carb over each cylinder bank is better than one in the middle, for good atomization.
Thin Line oil sump, go from 2.5 quarts to 4, only 1.5 inches deep.
Oil pump cover with screw on paper filter, wrap it to protect from rocks and exhaust heat. I had 2 friends eat thier engines with full flow systems that blew oil lines.
Change oil at 3000, religion.
Use synth blend 20/50 3 quarts, 1 quart 30 weight, for long bearing life.
PCV vent from heads to block to carbs, to get corrosives out of oil.
205-70-15, one inch taller tire in rear, to go from 3300 rpm at 70, down to 3000 at 70. If stock height, will give car a 1 degree rake.
Spoiler, flat, near back window, to break air, insted of Beetles drag.
Remove running boards, to break vacuum under body.
Other than that, you can try Gene Bergs Jet-A-Vator, an under carb screen that breaks up fuel for better atomization. The courts still out on that one and I dont have any more recent data than from 2007.
I got 34 mpg, from a 1600 dp, Weber 36's, 09, 1 3/8 single pack in 1986. My next bug will be an aerodynamic economical early 60's chrome job.
Good luck and keep it simple. |
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krusher
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7618
Location: california
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Cal Bug wrote: |
I have been collecting data on all the previous mileage motors, like Karcey's 55 mpg at 55 mph Ghia. I believe in the Zippo lighter principal. Keep it simple, keep it close to stock, make sure when it breaks, you can get parts for it at Auto Zone.
Stock 1600, ie. 1585, cheap parts, small engine volume.
Stock heads, dual ports, unless you can find a nice set of singles.
09 dist. Good advance curve, stock points.
Stock rockers, no need to make your cam any bigger with ratio rockers.
1 3/8 exhaust, into a single quiet pack. All cylinders balanced, but not too much flow, to blow your fuel out the tail pipe and kill low end torque.
Dual carbs, ICT, Kadron, Dell 36, or HPMX 40. A carb over each cylinder bank is better than one in the middle, for good atomization.
Thin Line oil sump, go from 2.5 quarts to 4, only 1.5 inches deep.
Oil pump cover with screw on paper filter, wrap it to protect from rocks and exhaust heat. I had 2 friends eat thier engines with full flow systems that blew oil lines.
Change oil at 3000, religion.
Use synth blend 20/50 3 quarts, 1 quart 30 weight, for long bearing life.
PCV vent from heads to block to carbs, to get corrosives out of oil.
205-70-15, one inch taller tire in rear, to go from 3300 rpm at 70, down to 3000 at 70. If stock height, will give car a 1 degree rake.
Spoiler, flat, near back window, to break air, insted of Beetles drag.
Remove running boards, to break vacuum under body.
Other than that, you can try Gene Bergs Jet-A-Vator, an under carb screen that breaks up fuel for better atomization. The courts still out on that one and I dont have any more recent data than from 2007.
I got 34 mpg, from a 1600 dp, Weber 36's, 09, 1 3/8 single pack in 1986. My next bug will be an aerodynamic economical early 60's chrome job.
Good luck and keep it simple. |
Your combo will work fine , but why leave out all the good MPG getting stuff.
1600 small cc? how about a 1200 or 1300
Stock heads, why not port them for more efficiency. free power
009, why not use a sdva and set up 36dells for lean idle jet cruise.
stock rockers, why not got 1.4's and get more TQ
20/50 why stir porridge, 10/30 would free up some mpg's (along with synth gearbox oil)
205/75/15 that's a big heavy tyre to get moving with a wide rolling resistant contact patch
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(06:54:29) BoomsVW: "i always feel free down there" |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 8126
Location: OKLAHOMA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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All you guys need to pay attention to John when he tells you that you will get better MPG with an SVDA then you will a 009, 010, 019, or any other mechenical only dist.
You should never, ever mix weights of oil. They are all formulated differently and do not mix. With todays oil technology you can go 5K-6K miles between oil changes. There are new cars today that only recommend 10K oil chages.
Jon Karcey never got 55 MPG. It was just his goal to get that much
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dawie
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2008
Posts: 109
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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One of the articles i have about the Karcey project mentions:
He brought his car to California, and it was independently tested by various magazine editors, including Practical Mechanics.
Their results were 54 mpg at 55- 65 mph highway, and 39 mpg city driving.
This was 30 years ago. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 1292
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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hi i see you live in africa . i am wanting to know. since it gets very hot in africa . how does the vw air cooled motors holds up in the heat? how long do the motors run befor you rebuild them ?. and is there any tricks you do to keep the motors running cool ? just wanted to know spencerfvee...............
| dawie wrote: |
One of the articles i have about the Karcey project mentions:
He brought his car to California, and it was independently tested by various magazine editors, including Practical Mechanics.
Their results were 54 mpg at 55- 65 mph highway, and 39 mpg city driving.
This was 30 years ago. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 7125
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.aircooled.net/vw-type-1-mileage-engine-mpg/
not done yet, trying to finish the details! Very time consuming, doing all I can!
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 1292
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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hay john great looking forward to reading it . i understand you have a shop to run . and this is one busy time for shops take care spencerfvee
| [email protected] wrote: |
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-type-1-mileage-engine-mpg/
not done yet, trying to finish the details! Very time consuming, doing all I can! |
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