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'66 Brakes - I'm on suicide watch
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drscope
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically when you bench bleed a master, you simply take it out of the box, clamp it in the vise to hold it, pour brake fluid into the fill hole and push the piston. You are simply feeding fluid through it before you bolt it into the car.

Other wise, it is full of air and that air needs to bled all the way through the system in order to get a good pedal. So bench bleeding just means you have less pumping to do when it's installed.

But it can be messy! So remember that brake fluid eats your paint (unless you are using the synthetic stuff). So try to keep your hands, tools, clothes, etc. clean as you work with this stuff.

And when it's finished, a good way to wash away any fluid spills is simply with water.
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craigman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a dual circut MC, bleed the fronts first.
Also jack up the car front and back so the wheels are hanging below the MC.
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drs1023
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 1963 Beetle got the best of me some years ago with the same issues. New ..... EVERYTHING and a gallon of brake fluid later, I still had no brakes. Back to the drawing board with all new steel lines and rubber hoses solved the problem, but I admit that this was a labor of gritting my teeth just to be sure I wasn't gonna' get beaten up by a simple brake system.

The most effective one bleed assistant is one I made. I drilled a 3/8" hole in an extra reservoir cap and installed a screw on tire valve. Fill the reservoir and screw on this cap. I use a bicycle pump to put just a few psi of air in the system instead of having someone pump the pedal. Of course, don't let the reservoir run dry and don't pressurize it from an air compressor - you'll find your next weakest link doing that.
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gt350ed
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drs1023 wrote:
...The most effective one bleed assistant is one I made. I drilled a 3/8" hole in an extra reservoir cap and installed a screw on tire valve. Fill the reservoir and screw on this cap. I use a bicycle pump to put just a few psi of air in the system instead of having someone pump the pedal. Of course, don't let the reservoir run dry and don't pressurize it from an air compressor - you'll find your next weakest link doing that.


Thanks. That's another one I may try. Especially since I just put a new reservoir on and I have the cap from the old one.
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outruncat
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always had issues with the rubber grommet from reservoir to master cylinder sucking air. Installed a whole new system head to toe and spent the time to bleed and configure... petal hit the floorboard the first long drive off the block. Something you really only want to experience once.

I would check around this at sometime. The fluid may be making a liquid seal, but still getting/holding air in the system. Sometimes it doesn't seat right, or has a crack/pinhole, or the reservoir tube not all the way in.

For what its worth... I would recommend eventually upgrading to dual circuit master cylinder and use a 67 reservoir. 67 design looks similar, fits in the same space, and with the dual circuit... give you some extra security if a line fails.
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gt350ed
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outruncat wrote:
Always had issues with the rubber grommet from reservoir to master cylinder sucking air...I would check around this at sometime. The fluid may be making a liquid seal, but still getting/holding air in the system. Sometimes it doesn't seat right, or has a crack/pinhole, or the reservoir tube not all the way in.

For what its worth... I would recommend eventually upgrading to dual circuit master cylinder and use a 67 reservoir. 67 design looks similar, fits in the same space, and with the dual circuit... give you some extra security if a line fails.


I'm really appreciating the variety of suggestions coming out of this thread. Hopefully, it will be useful for others as well.
Relating to a "dual circuit" master cylinder, is it as simple as replacing the master and routing the existing lines or is there more to it?
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outruncat
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a good thread with more info:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=484617&highlight=reservoir

If you go with the 67 reservoir the hole may need enlarged fit the dual tubes and use a larger mounting strap. You also may have to replace a brake line if you come up short at the connection points.

There are some options depending on what dual circuit master cylinder and reservoir you can use... a few are explained in the link.
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ejonn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gt350ed wrote:
Thought I'd check in and let folks no I may be making progress on the '66 brake bleed, but I have a question.

Several suggestions were made in my other "Suicide" thread of a week ago. I followed most of the suggestions like cracking the MC to eliminate air, further bleedings, etc. This produced a slightly firmer pedal, but not enough.

This morning, I adjusted the shoes so that they were up against the drums on all wheels. Now, without further bleeding, I have a rock solid pedal about 1/2 way into the pedal travel.

So, the question is...where am I in the process? Do I now back off the shoes? If so, how much? Should I further bleed before backing off the shoes. Am I there yet?

Thanks.
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ejonn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

old DKP driver wrote:
Why didn't you add this to your other post?

And, YES you can't leave the linings rubbing on the drums.
back them off until the drums turn.

Drive it, readjust.And report the condition of how it brakes.
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ejonn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gt350ed wrote:
old DKP driver wrote:
Why didn't you add this to your other post?


Heck if I know. As you are inferring, it would have maintained the continuity, right? So, is there a way to merge the two, or cut & paste mine and yours?
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ejonn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There ya go...
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gt350ed
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ejonn wrote:
There ya go...


I want to thank "ejonn" for fixing this. And, although I have not road-tested it yet, I also want to thank all of you who responded to my "suicide" thread. I implemented all of your suggestions and it appears that I now have a firm pedal. And once I got the adjustment of the shoes just about where I think they should be, I had my wife apply the brakes while the car is still up on jack stands with the wheels off. I checked at each drum with the brakes applied and everything seems to be working great. Assuming a successful road-test, I'll add some miles around the neighborhood and then pull it in for some tweeking.

Thanks again. Life is good once more.
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