Gas $5.00/gal. - What kind of mileage motor should one build

[yeoldeluke]

[EverettB]

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[torsionbar]

if you're going to build a fuel efficient engine, i recommend titanium gt3 connecting rods.

they're only $1700.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_se...9610301293

each.
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[spencerfvee]

when i started this forum on MPG 3 times i have asked people not to get into political discussions . because it does no one any good to get upset and no one wins.. and like i said it upsets everett. then everett has to come in and remove the posts and warn every one to clean it up . please do not post political coments thank you spencerfvee

[DarthWeber]

Spencer for President 2012!!
Paid for by SpencerforPresidentInc2012

Seriously, I think I'll wait for the Chinese knock-off Titanium Con Rods. When they land on the Moon later this decade they will be bringing back large amounts of titanium for that very purpose. Anyway, John Karcey proved years ago that you don't need lightweight parts to achieve great fuel mileage. Almost all his engine parts were genuine stock VW. That said, I also don't buy into hanging several extra pounds of weight on the crank either.
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[spencerfvee]

lol lol lol no way lol lol getting back to MPG you think like i do darth . about MPG motors there are a lot of stock parts out there . why buy big buck rods for a motor thats never going to see over 4,000 rpm . i keep thinking back to my bugs i had over the years my 1970 bug did well on MPG but my 1968 and 1967 bug did better. and they both were 1500cc motors my 1967 bug had the best carb vw made. very simple . the single port motors got the best MPG. i am like you darth i keep thinking whats the best motor for MPG but to find a good set of 1500 cyls. is hard to do. in the shop there are a lot of single port heads . i was thinking of useing 1300 heads open them up for the 1500cc cyls because those heads have the smaller valves . i was thinking of doing a 40 hp motor but my super is heavy over 2,000 lbs i dont think the 40 hp motor would pull it very well lol on my race car i have used the berg 5 lbs pulley it helps the car leave hard off the line .but i kind of thought it slowed down the rpms . if it would help MPG i dont know something to think about. i am putting parts together for a MPG motor . i am waiting for the swap meets to start lol spencerfvee

[vwracerdave]

[spencerfvee]

hi dave i checked the weight of a 1967 bug 1,807 lbs 1968 bug 1,807 lbs 1971 standard bug 1,807 lbs a super 1971 1,918 lbs a differnts of 111 lbs from a standerd bug thats not that much weight differnts .i thought it would be more spencerfvee

[DarthWeber]

According to my 1971 owners manual my Karmann Ghia weighs 1,918 lbs. Of course what it lacks in light weight it more than makes up for in classic sexy aerodynamic Italian designed curves.
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[krusher]

[spencerfvee]

hi krusher keep trying dont give up on me well i have two new mazdas is that getting me into the future my 2012 mazda 3 only gets 32 mpg my 2012 my mazda 5 van only gets 26mpg my 2180 bug got only 26 mpg i got to go down on the jetting its running rich gas hogs in the UK right lol lol spencerfvee

[krusher]

[AlteWagen]

After reading the last few thread replys I got to thinking about valve size a bit more.

The HVW mileage build used FI heads (32x30) with 9mm exhaust stems, the 1965 1200 square boss head also uses the same sized intake and exhaust valves.

In the past the best heads for street I used had 39x37.5 (041 casting with larger exhaust seat and valve installed) which are closer in size compared to stock.

Is there something about valve size ratio that also plays a huge roll in the mpg quest?

[[email protected]]

bigger valves accomplish bigger flow. A MPG engine is optimizing dynamics at low throttle positions (low flows). Big valves are a waste of time for this, and actually hurt intake velocity, so it's bad for MPG.
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[krusher]

[krusher]

I was watching Formula 1 today and found some interesting info.

In the 2014 season they will be moving from a 2.4L v8 to a 1.6 V6 with turbo.

The real interesting bit:

"To push the engineers to develop engine efficiency, the technical regulation imposes a fuel-flow control."

So with a limited fuel flow to find extra power they will have to work on my efficient burn.

This type of technology trickles down, so looking like F1 will be giving birth to some ideas that will help us with MPG in the future.

They do 4.7mpg right now
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[spencerfvee]

hi krusher . turbos the way to go . now adays . i used to race a turbo mazda speed M5 (miata) and i drove it on the street . i was shocked to see that it got from 22MPG to 31 MPG ..the 31 MPG was on a trips . i got 22MPG when i drove it hard lol it got 26MPG most of the time city highway . fords new truck v6 has twin turbos and gets 22MPG most pick up trucks only get 16MPG. ford must feal that a turbo is the best way to go. for MPG on there trucks . i feal we are going to see more cars and trucks with small turbos getting better MPG .as i have said befor on this forum i think tubos are going to be be used for better milage and power . i allways thought. that a small turbo on a 1600cc motor with a single solex 34 carb could get great MPG . every one talks about heating the fuel up for better MPG what a better way to heat the fuel up . by useing a turbo.befor the fuel gets to the heads . some thing to think about. i am sure theres going to be guys saying . a turbo is not the way to go for MPG . from what i see now adays every one wants a 4 CYL motor . i can only say this from seeing mazda selling more 4 cyl. cars. than V 6 cars .today gas went back up to $3.85 it was $3.59.. in CAL. my friend says gas is $4.50 gal. there now saying gas could go as high as $6.00 gal. by summer and now there saying the EPA wants to go from 10% alcohol in gas to 15% alcohol in gas. thats going to kill MPG for sure . and how well are air cooled vws going to run .useing 15% alcohol in the gas. time will tell lol just my two cents spencerfvee

[Cal Bug]

Hey Krusher and vwracerdave, sorry it took so long to get back, had to go down to San Diego.

On the subject of 1200/1300, I worry about the availability of parts. 1600 jugs are just cheap and available. I found porting kills some of the low end, maybe just a polish. SVDA has more torque, but I like the curve of the 009, I also got much better mpg with the 009.

Back to my Zippo lighter principle, I prefer thicker oil, for longevity. I'll give up an mpg for longer engine life. The 205/75/15 is my answer to a poor mans overdrive.

I have been mixing my oil since 2002, when I read the FAA report about synthetics. They recommend 45% multi grade, 45% synth, and 10% 30 weight to cover bearings when the oil is hot. They found synthetics build up carbon behind the rings and wear them out quicker.

1700 bucks for rods!!!??? That's over 400 gallons of gas, how many years would it take to make it back, before the next rebuild?

That's why I like points. My experience with Yamaha and Toyota, have left me stranded when the magic dies inside the little black box. 400 for toyota and 600 to replace the CDI box, in a Yamaha. That's a lot of gas. I'd rather loose an mpg for reliability, with old bone-headed points.

Now the deal with just buy a more efficient modern car, why do we love old VW's, because they're not like all the other belly-buttons going down the highway. They were meant to be worked on, they idle weird, they look different. They have that great smell. They do everything right, for me.

Plus, new cars are disposable, "Hey babe, lets go cruise in my classic 92 Mercury Topaz." " My car parks itselft." "I just paid 17 grand for a car that will be worth 3 grand in 5 years." I can sync my Bluetooth, with my laptop, iPad, and search for a restaurant, or buy clothes, all from my car." That's not gonna happen. Driving a VW is a mechanical experince, something new cars have lost. I like old cars and old bikes with points and kick starters, but that's a rant for another time.

I'd put an Emoticon on the end, but that's too technical.

[Boolean]

I'd be interested in that FAA report. Do you have a link?

[spencerfvee]

me too on the FAA report . i would like to see it . it sounds funny to me that a lot of cars are comming from dealers with full synth oil in the motors . my friends Z01 vet for one .i have been useing full synth for years in all my vw motors . when i tore my motor down after 20,000 miles every thing looked clean as the day i put the motor together . i tore the motor down because i wanted to see how the cam looked and to check every thing out.and install a bigger cam in the motor . i am kind of shocked .at the FAA report . hay i learn something new every day . spencerfvee