Want to hear from Aircooled the pros and cons/ Go Water ?

[SojournersWesty]

[vanagonjr]

[RCB]

[Andrew A. Libby]

[fredn]

I have an Air Cooled and I love it. It gets me where I want to go and not much more than that. It does have a bit more pep thanks to a cam upgrade. I have a fresh motor that I built for it when I bought the van a couple of years ago. Mine is a tintop with a weekender interior. I might feel differently with a westy (and the extra weight).

My plans don't include an engine conversion, rather my next step will be to put bigger valves in the heads (42x36mm). Cost will be approx 350 a side.
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1982 Air Cooled Vanagon Carat Weekender Interior

[Dennis Perusse]

In my humble opinion it boils down to your needs and what you decide to purchase, so you need to figure out your needs. How much are you going to be driving it? Will you be doing camping year round, or only during certain seasons? Is it something that you're gonna just be enjoying as either a hauler or just wanting to go to a few vw shows?

Then their is also mechanical ability? It is true that the water cooled ones can have modifications done to it to improve speed, and other areas of comfort and reliability. Do you have the ability to either maintain that or is your wallet wide enough to pay someone to handle that?

Then their are the creature comforts that you may expect. Part of that entails speed, or having complete temperature control (i.e. Air Conditioning) or power locks or windows and most of the stuff that some people, like me, are rather lukewarm to. Plus things like larger tires, tow hitches, massive audio systems, etc.

So the bottom line is this. If you used to driving your 71 and like the speed and are comfortable with its performance (I realize the term "performance" is subjective) than an air cooled is fine. Plus you can put in a Raby camper special engine should you have the dough and you desire a more powerful option. Do a search on 82Westyman who went with that option and ask him his feelings about that.

With a water cooled you have a lot of other options in terms of performance (again subjective in many ways) in areas of engine, braking, tire size, etc. Plenty of ways to spend your money for what you want, but, as the old adage says to "think before you spend".

Just as an example I have an 81 air cooled that I am trying to restore as funds allow. I knew what I wanted, knew that it wouldn't be fast, and knew that some things I would be limited with. I wouldn't change a thing. I knew that I wouldn't be happy with a water cooled engine. Where I have a lead foot sometimes and a penchant for hair brained ideas the air-cooled version of this bus appeals to me. Your mileage may vary as you need to asses your personal needs and what you want out of it.

Plus, unless you are handy mechanically or with deep pockets you also want to purchase the most reasonable one that just calls out to you to bring home and make it a part of your life.

Best of luck in your decision and purchase. Don't forget though, if you really like a slow water cooled bus their is always the diesel version that's 47 hp.



Dennis

[chazz79]

The air cooled vanagon is a joke. Even in decent tune the pile won't get out of its own way. It reminded me of my bay when it still had the 1700 in it but only worse. Steer way clear unless you plan in swapping everything out.
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One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[TDI_VT]

The only thing worse than an aircooled Vanagon is the pathetic excuse for an engine that is called the 1.6 NA diesel. Just not enough power for daily use...maybe around town only. I don't like the idea of not being able to climb a hill above 60 mph...but that's just me I guess.
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1986 Vanagon GL white, 118K original miles. TDI Diesel swap 75% complete!

2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons...

1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though....

[vanagonjr]

[netcruzer]

I was looking for a 2.1 water boxer last year as my first Westy, but I found a sweet 82 air cooled and I couldn't say no to it.

I've been very happy with it. Mine is stock Canadian spec, had it tuned by an air cooled specialist, and is completely adequate for power. Going up steep hills is only when I notice the lack of overall ponies in the rear. If you keep the weight down for all your extra camp gear and don't live in the mountains, hilly areas, an air cooled is great.

Extra vintage, better looks without a front rad, a sound that turns heads and gives you thumbs up/peace waves wherever I go.

Very happy with my air cooled!
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'82 Air-Cooled Vanagon Westfalia

[Jake Raby]

Air or water, we have all the bases covered
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[kuleinc]

Just because you have a 2.1L water cooled engine, doesn't mean you won't be doing 25 MPH up the grade to tahoe... Ask me how I know?

That being said, I didn't have to worry about head temps or oil temps, which is nice.
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1987 Wolfram Gray 2WD Vanagon GL Westy (1.8T Powered!)
2001 ALH Jetta TDi (Hers)
1998 ALH New Beetle (His)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496946

[Bercilak]

I've had both ~ an 82 air-cooled, and an 85 with a 2.1 transplant. Differences:

Speed ~ the water cooled is better if you want to drive modern highway/traffic speeds. This NOT a flaw in the air-cooled. At the time the early vanagons were designed and sold, the maximum speed limit in the US was 55 mph, a speed that my air-cooled vanagon easily exceeded for short periods with no meaningful problems.

Power ~ With the air-cooled you may find yourself being passed by everything (even semis!) on a long grade on a hot day (I drove to LA to Vegas on an August day, just to see how it would do). The water cooled runs up the steep hill I live on at 55mph, and can keep up in LA traffic, though I stay to the right and drive 65-70 most of the time.

Heat ~ For LA, the air-cooled heat was adequate to the task. For colder areas (I lived in Oregon for many years) I suspect you'll feel the heat is less-than-satisfactory on cold days. If you are driving in to P-town on the freeway from West Linn, you'll probably find it heats up OK.

The water-cooled heats for real. That thing is a heat machine. Caveat: I had to replace the coolant lines and both heater cores to get there.

A/C ~ You can get A/C in air-cooleds, but I've never heard of anyone thinking that it was worthwhile. I haven't fixed the A/C in my vanagon (we live close to the beach, so rarely need it), but will before I take the wife/child on long trips.

*****************************

If you want modern power & speed, then look to the water-cooled, and maybe start looking at conversion (conversion = money and/or knowledge; do you have either/both?)

SojournerWesty's advice is by far the most important; the previous owner, and the detail level of work will determine what you spend most of your time doing in your van. I went into my water-cooled knowing it was a project, and still get sick of not being able to use it much from time to time. I would rather have a well-cared for air-cooled than a black-box water-cooled any day.

Best of luck,

B.
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85 Vanagon GL ~ aka "Desert Rat"
2.1 case, 1.9 external systems

[delibessleep]

I've owned a 77 bus, test drove an 81 vanagon, and own an 87 Westy.
The 2.0L in the bay was just fine (I miss that bus). But it wasn't a camper and not nearly as heavy.
The 81 was a dog. I live in the mountains and just couldn't picture getting out on the highway with no ability to stay with the flow of uphill traffic.
The 87 isn't a speed machine by any measure. But it is much more powerful than the AC, and provides greater options to improve the power than the AC unit (when that day comes).
Converting the AC to a WC sounds like a money pit to me. A big AC motor might be a better option.
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63 Single Cab
63 Beetle sedan
69 Karmann Ghia
87 Westy

Biology is destiny...choose your mutations carefully

[fredn]

[Dennis Perusse]

Actually no more that what most people are gonna have to spend to get their water cooled or diesel model up to what their expectations seem to be. I've heard people say that they've spent 12 g's on their ride, and some far less. It's all what you're willing to spend, and what your needs are.

How fast do you really need to go? Sure you're getting past by everyone and everything but it all depends on terrain. Where I live on the eastern seaboard most things are between 55 and 65. Personally I'm quite comfortable between those speeds, others are not. Hell, where I'm a jeep owner I drive at the speed limit and do quite well that way. If driving like an Aztec sacrifice on the highway is the ideal you'll never stay ahead since people drive today like a ferret hooked on angel dust. Enjoy the ride, you'll get where you want to go...and if you can get do it enjoyably, better still. Plan ahead, their is nothing wrong with that mindset.

These are wonderful machines, born in a time that we will never see again in terms of quality and longevity. Again, assess your needs and whatever you purchase will clearly be perfect for you. Best of luck in your process, and to everyone who owns one of these. We are truly lucky in this sense and even though people will disagree from time to time that isn't bad either.

Dennis

[Jake Raby]

[rsxsr]

[noganav]

Notice a pattern anyone?

Lots of haters who have driven one once, or have been told they're slow or blah blah blah. Folks who've owned them for a while, like them just fine. If they're properly maintained they will do 70mph all day and a little more than 20mpg. Slow on the hills, but my Syncro is not really much better. I'll definitely have another Aircooled van when I live somewhere with some space.

Don't count them out without actually driving one and listening to people *who can document that they actually have some experience with them*. Aircooled vans are the best value for money right now. They camp just like the watercooled ones, and the come with a super awesome ski lodge interior.

[delibessleep]