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jimthing
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Joined: November 02, 2009
Posts: 40
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
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 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: Resurrection of the "Gen" warning light problem/qu |
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Attempting to re-connect the generator warning light. This circuit was not connected when I obtained the vehicle. ('74 Thing). I found where the wire leading to the warning light had been cut and taped. The wire and light bulb and bulb holder have been restored. The light does not illuminate under any circumstances. I observed the regulator has been replaced at some time with 4 connections. I am not sure about how to verify proper operation of the regulator in terms of the warning light. Battery charges OK. Would appreciate comments.
Thanks
Jim |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2005
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what you mean when you say your voltage regulator has been replaced by four connections.
So, here's what's supposed to happen. The idiot lamps are connected to 12 volts whenever the key is switched on. They are illuminated when they are grounded. The blue generator lamp wire leaves the generator lamp and goes to the voltage regulator terminal 61.
When the key switched off, terminal 61 on the voltage regulator is isolated from ground. Naturally the generator light won't be illuminated. When the key is switched on but the car is not running, terminal 61 is shunted to ground, and the generator light is illuminated. As a point of interest, the brake system warning light should also be illuminated at this time because it is connected to this circuit. This momentary turning on of these lamps is the idiot light function check.
When the engine is running, terminal 61 is once again isolated from ground, and the generator lamp goes out.
So, with the key on but the engine not running, you should be able to test the lamp and circuit as far back as the engine compartment by removing the blue wire from terminal 61 and grounding it anywhere. If the circuit is good, the lamp should light up.
Also make sure the voltage regulator is properly grounded, and check that terminal 61 shunts to ground with the key switched on as well.
HTH.
Last edited by Captain Spalding on Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 19867
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you saying that someone has installed something besides the stock style regulator? |
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jimthing
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Joined: November 02, 2009
Posts: 40
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I see what you mean by my not being clear. I don't even understand what I said from last night. Anyway, the existing regulator is a Bosh (Mexico) I can't really be sure about the terminal numbers without dismounting it, which I can do. I can say now that the Bosh emblem is upside down and what I suspect as terminal #61 is on the right /top of the regulator. There is a blue wire connected to it that traced out to be a cut and taped off wire near the fuse block. The corresponding idiot light also has a blue wire connected, cutoff and taped. I have restored this blue wire so that it has continuity back to the regulator. My hesitation was not knowing what exactly to expect in terms of when the light is to receive voltage from the regulator. Your explanation has cleared that up. I assume the regulator is what belongs there and the terminal positions may not correspond to what I expect looking at the diagram. I shall now test the ways you suggest. Back after that.
Thanks tons...
I can repair an electron microscope in a heartbeat but somehow auto voltage regulators and electric motors and generators slipped by me.
Jim |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2005
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Electric motors I get. Voltage regulators are a black box to me. Good luck with your diagnosis. |
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jimthing
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Joined: November 02, 2009
Posts: 40
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds like you savvy Thing regulators to me. I did measure around and determined that #61 is for sure not grounded when engine is running or key switch off. Key on engine not running seems to head 61 to ground but I an never read less than about 300Kohms. I also do not get a light on when I ground the wire to the gen light. I believe your saying the is 12volts on all the idiots all the time but only illuminate when they are grounded. I can't measure 12 volts anywhere around the lamps base. I am not getting how the 12 volts is connected. It has to go the the base of the bulb if grounding the center pin gets grounded. |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Several of the lamp bases in the instrument panel including the generator light get 12V power from the ignition switch via the fuse box. The bases on other lights are at ground potential. When the key is in the "ON" position the base of the generator bulb should have 12V on it.
Why not check to see if the blue wire between the regulator and the warming light has both continuity from end to end and that it isn't grounded out. There must be some reason it was clipped on both ends. |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2005
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jimthing wrote: | | I am not getting how the 12 volts is connected. |
Have a look at this photo that I found in the gallery. This is the back side of a VW speedometer. Ignore the wiring and wire colors, as I'm pretty sure it's not a Thing speedometer. But do notice at the base of the speedometer there is a black wire connected to a terminal with a horseshoe shaped piece of brass. On the Thing, 12 volts comes from terminal 15 on the ignition switch, goes to the upstream side of fuse 1, and continues from the same side of the fuse to this horseshoe shaped terminal on the back of the speedometer, where it is distributed to one side of each of three idiot lights. In the case of the Thing, the blue wire coming off the bulb base at the right of the photo would eventually find its way back to the voltage regulator. There's a little more to it than that, but that's the gist.
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jimthing
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Location: Arkansas Ozarks
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Ah yes. A picture is worth many words. I see now, that the 3 are different. I was measuring like all are isolated from ground. Mainly I was missing this looking at the diagram. I'm still a bit cumbersome with German schematics. Getting there though, with your help. Back after re-looking.
Thanks again
Jim |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2005
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jimthing wrote: | | I was measuring like all are isolated from ground. |
Um — all three are isolated from ground. I know it's typical for the shell of a bulb socket to be the ground, but that is not the case here. The black wire going to the apex of the horseshoe is the hot lead. The colored wires coming off the bases of the bulbs go to ground: the left lead in the photo goes to the oil pressure switch, which, when actuated, lets the current go to ground. The center lead for the turn signal indicator goes to the flasher relay, where it finds ground at the appropriate time. The right lead goes to the voltage regulator, where it finds ground.
Have a look at the component based diagram. It's a little less cryptic than the current flow diagram.
Hope that helps. |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
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Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Just out of curiosity, does the turn signal indicator work? How about the oil pressure light? Fuel gauge? Could it be that the bulb is bad? |
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jimthing
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Joined: November 02, 2009
Posts: 40
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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OK then, back from the pearl diving. 1st to clarify my comment about the three being different etc> I was meaning that yes all 3 were isolated from ground, different than all the other lamps. I was trying to say that I was expecting all to be the same, not 3 to be different in the beginning of my checking. Anyway you are correct in all aspects about floating 3. As it stands now, all is well. Everything works, gen, oil, turn, emg flashers, everything. Your information about oil, gen and turn floating got me straightened out. It then was just a matter of cleaning term 61 on the regulator, Repairing the faulty ground connection for the instrument cluster/speedo, etc. I did discover if the speedo case is not properly grounded, 12 volts appears on the case, gas gauge gets freaky, clicking happens at the regulator etc. That ground is for sure required. As you had mentioned, the brake fault light gets into this circuit. Mine is clipped and taped as other things. I left it that way for the moment but I did run a new wire over to the light ready to connect. One thing at a time. So I am good for the moment, you were of super support, and in the process, I now am on speaking terms with German diagrams. I ended up with a goofball fuse block out in the trunk area that remains to be made permanent. The local NAPA guy sold it to me telling me he used to sell a ton of the blocks to people here with VW bugs etc years ago and it is what I needed. Wrong. I will have to find a better way, but I am going to not use the OEM fuse block. I will do something in order to use modern fuses. The OEM style is just not dependable enough for me..
During this project I replaced to steering damper following new tie rod ends. Next is do something about the floor pan problem of watching the ground go by under the front seats. I will just have to patch for now as the budget is gone for a 3 or 4 months,
I really appreciate your help, you saved me untold hours on this.
Jim |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jimthing wrote: | | I am going to not use the OEM fuse block. I will do something in order to use modern fuses. The OEM style is just not dependable enough for me.. |
If you used the OEM style fuses, buy the ones with brass electrode strips and coat the ends of the fuses with dielectric grease your dependability is going to be very high. I do like the modern spade style fuses though and if I had a fuse box using them that I could just plug and play, it would swap over to it. |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2005
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: | | . . . I do like the modern spade style fuses though and if I had a fuse box using them that I could just plug and play, it would swap over to it. |
And that's a big if.
Jim, to my knowledge there is no plug-and-play solution to replace the torpedo fuses with spade fuses.
So you will either have to do some flips and twists to mount a spade-style fuse block into the same location as the stock fuse block, or you're going to have to add jumpers to every wire going to a relocated fuse block. (And personally I would curse a previous owner of my vehicle who changed wire colors at the fuse block.  )
My feeling is that if you replace the 30-year-old fuse block with a nice new stock-style one, hit all the female terminals with some contact cleaner, and replace the ones that are too sloppy to be tightened up with a pair of needlenose pliers, the reliability will be satisfactory. |
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