996 3.6 and tiptronic swap

Torque Junkie · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: 996 3.6 and tiptronic swap

Well I think i spent enough time (about an hour) using the search function of this forum to come to the conclusion that it's an appropriate question to post. Let me first say that I'm blown away by all of the knowledge of the members on this site. I'm left with one question.

If I can buy a complete 2003 salvaged 996 for a reasonable amount of money....will the drivetrain come close to fitting? Let me pretense this with I'm a semi experienced Porsche tech (2 years at the dealer) and have had quite a few of these motors out of the car. I'm more concerned with the dimensions, smog-ability (California), exhaust, gearing, weight and cooling system hurdles than the expense of it. I know the short comings of theses motors, and believe I'm minimizing my chances of failure by purchasing a car with a tip instead of a manual. It's amazing what kind of over-revs these people cause on these cars.

Let me add that the last vanagon I built was a 2.8l GM powered syncro and it ran great with the exception of the lack of freeway gears available. It ran the factory f.i. with a built stock syncro trans (with granny).

I just bought an '86 vanagon with a blown head gasket. It currently has a manual, and I'm getting too old to row my own.

Any thoughts?

D Clymer · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject:

The engine may just barely fit under the stock engine lid when mounted at standard crankshaft/input shaft height. The intake manifold is fairly tall on these M96 motors. From what I've seen, the Porsche transmission is quite a bit longer than a standard VW gearbox. This means it will probably require some modification to the structural crossmember ahead of the rear wheels. Not the end of the world, but quite a bit of extra work nonetheless.

I would say go for it. This is a conversion I have fantasized about from time to time over the years and it would be fun to see it done. It sounds like you know your way around these engines and are well acquainted with the intermediate shaft bearing failures and rear main shaft issues.

David

chojinchef · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:37 am Post subject:

insyncro · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:44 am Post subject:

The sound of a Porsche is second to none Exclamation

Tristar Eric has fitted a G50 and shown a clever way to use the Porsche mount with a Vanagon crossmember....some fabrication skills are needed.

Go for it Exclamation

an86carrera · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:53 am Post subject:

I would love to see it done. As far as IMS problems go it's a shame that Porsche decided to go with sealed bearings there, and in the manual trans for the pinion bearings. Just sold my 996 C4 with 136k miles on it and never an IMS failure. But I would have rather had a G50 trans as I do in the new to me turbo or a tiptronic.

This has probably been posted before but:
http://www.tunersgroup.com/Videos/porsche_kombi.html
_________________
Len
Current Vehicles
'84 Westy '95 2.2 Subaru
'01 Carrera Twin Turbo
'06 Diesel Liberty CRD
'75 914

240Gordy · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject:

Check out the Swiss race taxi site, it has many, many pictures of a 996 in a Vanagon chassis, with a splittie shell. They didn't try very hard to make it fit under the lid though.

http://www.race-taxi.ch/indexx.htm
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."

2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

hdenter · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject:

Well, when you are all ready to come for back down to earth, notice that the OP is in CA. It will take a lot more than structural changes to put that combo on the road here.

Good Luck!

Hans
_________________
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender
'96 golf
'07 Passat Wgn

D Clymer · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject:

an86carrera · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject:

insyncro · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject:

The pictured exhaust is stock.
There are plenty of others available and should not alarm the refs, but the price may alarm interested parties.
There was an 89 Wolfsburg with Porsche driveline for sale about a year ago.
I believe it was built in Cali and had to be sold.
IIRC, it is now in Boston and I have purchased some of the suspension parts as they were changed to lift it up a tad.

240Gordy · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject:

[image]http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/680988.jpg[/image]
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."

2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

Torque Junkie · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject:

I did have a concern about the huge mufflers on these things. One of the requirements to get the conversion past the ref is retaining the stock manifold to cat combination. I think that is going to pretty difficult unless I can find a much smaller carb approved muffler/exhaust.

I know there are some fitment issues as well. It's been a few years since I've had either of these drive trains in front of me. That's why I'm looking for advice from this forum.

Getting 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb can takes some finess and help from my new found friends. Damn I love the Internet!

Thanks for the pix an86carrera. This is what I was hoping to see to refresh my memory. Anyone have some shots with a tiptronic mounted to it? IIRC it's significantly larger. Anyone know where to engineering measurements on these units?

SyncroGhia · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:13 am Post subject:

Look up Claer VW T3s on google. These guys have been fitting Porsche engines into T3 vans for a while and know their onions.

The engine and gearbox (tiptronic or manual) won't fit in the space without mods.

You'll have to modify the front cross member and probably have to raise the engine lid. I've never seen one fitted without lifting it.

How much do you know about the 996 engines? have you had to rebuild one? have you seen how the intermediate bearings fail and what happens to the rest of the engine when they do go?

I've installing an Audi 2.2 20V Turbo 5 Cylinder (with Porsche 996 gearbox) into a Bluestar (T3) at present. Have a look here. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=452480&highlight=bluestar+germany

You'll obviously need all the electronics in order for the engine/gearbox to function and recoding the ECUs so that they'll function without the other systems which are in the Porsche.

MG
_________________
1989 Syncro 16 S6 Westy Limey
1991 Syncro Lightweight SWB
1989 S8 Bluestar
1990 Tristar

insyncro · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:30 am Post subject:

Anything is possible with passion and a lot of money Wink

Torque Junkie · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:56 am Post subject:

an86carrera · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:30 am Post subject:

If anyone is worried about the IMS issue you can do this:
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html

This IMS problem worried me at 136k miles so I bought the 996 Turbo recently which does not have the same engine as a 996 NA, the block is the well proven 964 split case.
_________________
Len
Current Vehicles
'84 Westy '95 2.2 Subaru
'01 Carrera Twin Turbo
'06 Diesel Liberty CRD
'75 914

randywebb · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

you might take a look at CARB approved aftermakret exhaust setups

also, if you simply relocate stock components downstream (i.e. longer tubing runs) will CARB pass it?
- I'd expect worse cold start emissions but dunno if they will fail it or not
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

Rocky Mountain Westy · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject:

If you can get it for a good deal than part out the car and take your profits to a mainstream conversion. Just my opinion. I like my camper van to be cheap and simple
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Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]

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