Back Into My '69 T3! Gonna' Need Some Engine Help (FI)

[spoon]

Hello everyone. First of all, I've learned a great deal since I
first started lurking almost eight years ago. I want to thank everyone for
all they do and all they contribute to help keep this community one of the
most interesting and most knowledgeable you'll ever find around.

Years ago, my Squareback gave me some runnability issues. The engine started when I told it to, and the idle speed was perfect. There was no knocking, or any other indications that the case internals were worn past it's limits. However; fuel was making it past the rings and into the oil, as well as sputtering out the the tail pipes. Maybe I fried a set of rings? I am unsure. Circumstances didn't permit leak down or compression tests. I kick myself for that.

As of now, the motor has the top end all torn down. I am wanting to reuse the case as is.. I've been told that if there weren't any issues when it was "running", that it would be safe doing so. Quick question #1, what can I check while the case is still intact (bearing play, rear main seal, etc.)? There doesn't seem to be any obvious metal chunks or shavings about. The rods have a bit of lateral play (not rocking play, just side to side) and they have no in\out or up\down play. The engine also rotates smoothly and freely by hand.

My ideas are to just completely replace pistons, rings, and cylinders. Quick question #2, can you please suggest where to source out quality replacement piston and cylinder sets? I've found them all over the internet, and want to make sure I choose wisely. Also, can I use this opportunity to increase displacement?

I am also going to reuse the DP heads. Quick question #3, what should I be looking for with these heads? Are there any particular issues I should look for, or have the machine shop check on?

My goals are to get her back running with the factory FI intact. Here are a few pics of my Squareback and motor in it's current state:

Being dragged out of storage. She was mistreated here.


At home now! Washed off years of dust.


Motor out.


Motor apart. Leaky oil cooler seals made big mess.










If there are other pics you'd like to see, please let me know. Anything I can do to help you, help me.
_________________
Pit Bull Myths, Busted!
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[Bobnotch]

[mxracer]

One thing I'd ask myself if I were you is "how many times do I want to do this?"

You are taking a chance if you don't crack the case and check all the internals as well. You may not have any issues at all but you will have no idea what the bearings, crank, cam, etc. are like if you don't look.

I would personally keep going and then rebuild the whole thing. I don't know about you but I'd have MUCH better peace of mind if I rebuilt the whole thing. Reliability wise as well as narrowing the chance of having to do the top end twice.

If you find a machine shop that does VW they will know what to look for in the heads, which should not be an issue in CA. in general you want to look for cracks running from the valve seats to the spark plug. A crack between the seats (unless it's HUGE) doesn't matter. They should look for other cracks, clean the heads, replace guides, replace seats if needed, new valves, new springs, new retainers, a 3 angle valve job, lap the valves, clean the crap out of them then assemble.

If you split the case and took them the internals they could check those for you as well.

As Bob mentioned I also like Mahle/Cima P&C but for the stock size you can get AA, QSC, or Mahle and not have issues. Just my thought but, you can shop price on P&C kits since the retailer isn't making them anyway.

If you don't have it, I'd suggest getting "How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Engine" as a guide. If you follow that book you will not have an issue with your rebuild. http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Volkswagen-air-Cooled-Engine-models/dp/0895862255

[JSMskater]

Spoon -- just do a full rebuilt. you're already there practically and since you're in CA you can get away doing it relatively cheaply:

1) send your crank rods, flywheel, pressure plate, fan assembly, and send them to DPR. Either order a new set of pistons, or if the ones you have are still good, have those shipped to Jose at DPR as well. They can set you up with a rotationally balanced assembly and absolutely flawless machine work and its NOT that much -- IIRC I paid under $350 for the parts and machine work with him and I my crank had all the bells and whistles -- OG german everything and at a fraction of the cost of a new crank. Also he'll tell you what sizes everything is so you can order the correct bearings.

2) send your engine case and (if you decided to keep your old pistons cause they're good) to rimco for cleaning and inspection and any machine work you want/need done to it -- case savers are a good idea if you dont have them. some people also add threaded oil passage plugs and other stuff. its really up to you and your budget here.

3) my recommendation for the engine parts you need (bearings, seal kit, etc etc) is CB performance. I bought everything from them when I did my build and I couldnt have been more pleased with the quality of the stuff I got and the ease with which i ordered it, and the prices were competitive on most items -- and where they weren't I knew I was getting a better part. other parts vendors I trust are ISP, aircooled.net and thesamba.

4)as Bob said, at a minimum have the guides replaced -- personally I'd just have them do all of it and lap the valves while they're in there too. I might even go further IF your budget allows it -- CB sells some very nice bone stock heads with 0 miles on any of the parts and light machining to make them perfect-- so far I've been really happy with these heads after 3 sets of OG ones failed on me in as many years. they were a good investment for sanity. If you decide to reuse your old heads, Rimco does great work too. An alternative to Rimco is VW paradise in the north SD area -- but they have a loooonnnnnnnggggg wait list. Rimco is speedier, and the new owner has turned that place around in the last 4 years -- my pistons and cylinders I sent to them came back like new.

5) if you're gonna keep the FI... how's you're wiring? eh. eh. in all seriousness -- get the injectors sent out to witchhunter performance so they get cleaned and flowed, replace all the fuel lines and ESPECIALLY the ignition components, check your relays and replace as necessary, and take the time now to replace all your body grounding straps. you can also bench test all the components out of the car -- and PM me if you want I can loan you my VW 1218 tester once you get the motor back in the car before you fire it up to check the FI.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 70 Ghia --73 Bay
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI Harnesses!
www.JSMENG.webs.com

[spoon]

MX, Bob, and skaterface thanks so much for the information! Skater? Last I remember you were in Rancho... have I been away that long??

---

Bob, I has no idea how many miles are on the case itself. There was half a rebuilder sticker atop the case... only parts I could make out were the zip code; 96707 (Santa Ana, CA). I wouldn't know off hand of any shops out that way.

I am not looking to build a racecar, but I'd love something reliable. My budget can afford me middle of the road parts, and I feel that I'm competent enough to do some of the work myself (replacing and lapping valves, replacing case savers, installing pistons, etc.). A top end rebuild will afford me a lot of time and money.

---

I want to reuse these heads if possible... I will take them to a shop and have them looked at once I find one close to me. I don't want to spend the money to ship them away. Well I'd love to, but it's just not in the budget. I have a magnifying glass... can I do this myself? Do these heads warp, or must they be milled ever? Do they have special equipment that I don't that allows them to see cracks better? Is that all we're looking for, cracks and that's it?

Is there absolutely nothing I can do to check bottom end without splitting the case? It's worth mentioning again that there weren't any knocks or noises that I heard coming from the case. The oil cooler seals leaked and made a mess of things, and of course the oil combined with the heat put a hurting on all the FI wiring.

---

I don't remember who it was, but SOMEONE asked about my wiring I am inclined to replace the entire harness. There are a few questionable splices made by PO as well as myself (roadside repairs). Brittle and frayed connections, the works. I know how much the integrity of the wiring means to our FI systems, so I am much more inclined to spend money here vs. engine parts.


_________________
Pit Bull Myths, Busted!
http://www.badrap.org/monster-myths

[supaninja]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1278220

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1278740

Minimum chinese parts=maximum longevity

You know that engine, it's up to you if you want to dive into the shortblock or not. A top-end rebuild may be all that's needed.
_________________
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/chucky1974/ninja.gif

Nick
Megasquirted Type 4 powered Notch http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Blog of Doom http://supaninjanick.wordpress.com/

[spoon]

Thanks ninja! I am loving that set of Mahle's right about now. I am big German fan, and am extremely opposed to anything Chinese on any of my VWs.

To touch on what Bob brought up about the "SIR" stamping on the heads... I have a feeling the entire engine was built by SIR... on the half remaining rebuilder sticker on the case I can make out "mport Rebuilders" and "CA 92707". Southwest Import Rebuilders is indeed in Santa Ana, CA. Is this good news? Still have no clue how long ago it was.
_________________
Pit Bull Myths, Busted!
http://www.badrap.org/monster-myths

[Brent]