Need help w/idas on mini super stock motor

[Dcarl01]

I'm building a 70 baja, lots invested over 6 yrs without ever driving it. I've acquired a 2007 cc mini super stock long block from my uncle, 90.5 x 78 , huge valves, massive port job, vz something cam , had 11 to 1 compression until I added copper head gaskets bringing it to 9.5 to 1. I have bought some 48 idas and really don't have a clue where to begin, so if anyone had any useful input on the matter I would be grateful . Venturis, emulsion tubes, jets , etc. I will add the 3rd progression hole and this motor did run 7800 rpm all day, Please help

[mightymouse]

If all you did was add copper head gaskets yet left the cam in there, its gonna run like dog shit.
Need to pull oil pump and tell us exactly what cam, so we can suggest where the compression should be.
Low compression with big cam = FAIL.

This is the first step.
_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.

[Dale M.]

While you can use the 48 IDAs, 44 IDF probable would have been better choice with CR you intend to run.... IDA are a great WOT carb for race purposes, but less nice to street drive...

I have 218) in race car and had 48 IDFs on it and went down to 44 IDFs and guess what.... It runs a whole lot better....

Dale
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Lives his life vicariously through his own self...
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.

All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[slalombuggy]

Your motor DID run at 7800 all day. That will be less than useless on the street. You really need to detune the whole motor, not just drop the compression. It all has to work together. "huge", valves, low compression and a big cam will run like crap as stated before. The engine was built for a purpose, now you are changing it's purpose and you'll have to change the motor to work for what you want to do with it. I'd also be leary of how your lifter bores survived running a VZ cam, they have extremely aggressive ramp profiles and put a ton of side load on the lifter wearing out the lifter bore.

I'm assuming your baja has large tires? Couple that with a motor that runs at high rpm and you will not be happy at all with the motor. You'd be happier with something with low end grunt to make up for the taller over all gear ratio.

brad
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[mark tucker]

better idea than adding a head gasket(witch it should have but also have about .040 piston to head clearance. would be to do some head work to lower cr&have a reverse dome added to the pistons to get cr down.find out what cam it has, it may be fine it may not thats up to the driver&tuner.and rockers are also a tuning tool.

[spencerfvee]

well heres my two cents . you have the IDAS so your going to have to use them i would buy a set of 37 venturis for the IDAs jetting you will have to work on that your self .its best to talk with carb rebuilder. like ACE he does a super job with webers . you can run a big cam motor with 9:1 and weber 48 IDAs . gene berg did it useing 8:00 CR and a FK 89 cam and big valve heads and 48 IDAs.so it can be done . you have to run a trans with close ratio gears . motors with big race cams and big valves in the heads . do not like a stock trans with stock gears lol belive me i have tried it . it ran like shit lol in 3rd and 4th gear . do not use a 3:88 ring and pinion . a 4:125 ring and pinion would work better . may be a 1.58 or 1.48 3rd gear and a 1.04 4th gear. it allso depends on how big a tire your running on ther back of your car . you might want to check with a trans builder on the right gearing .you allso might think about a bus trans . if your running a real tall tire on the back of your car . with a big cam motor you have to gear the motor to keep the RPMS up. dont look for great MPG lol.allso for get long trips . you might over heat your motor trying to do so. unless you like driveing at 50 to 55 MPH on a free way . i understand you want a motor that rocks and sounds mean . i know its a guy thing right lol and i am willing to bet that you got a good deal on the motor. so you have to use the motor you bought . it sounds like your motor was in a mini stock car and used for a short crouse. race track . your cam might be a vz 15 engle . thats what most off the road guys are useing now adays. i could be wrong. with some work i feal you can run this motor on the street . the big thing is how street friendy will it be ???and will bother you if you have to up shift and down shift the gears more than a street bug has to. i dont think it will . hay have fun with you baja bug. and do your thing lol spencerfvee .................. squote="Dcarl01"]I'm building a 70 baja, lots invested over 6 yrs without ever driving it. I've acquired a 2007 cc mini super stock long block from my uncle, 90.5 x 78 , huge valves, massive port job, vz something cam , had 11 to 1 compression until I added copper head gaskets bringing it to 9.5 to 1. I have bought some 48 idas and really don't have a clue where to begin, so if anyone had any useful input on the matter I would be grateful . Venturis, emulsion tubes, jets , etc. I will add the 3rd progression hole and this motor did run 7800 rpm all day, Please help[/quote]

[mightymouse]

I was tired when i posted and failed to mention... DECK HEIGHT

Thats what i meant to say. The correct deck is #1 on every build. Just doubling the deck to lower the CR is the WRONG way to do it.

As was then said above after my post, you need to tear this thing down and inspect it all. Check lifter bores, clean it all, change to a better "sized for your app" cam and re assemble it.

If you need any help let me know. I build these engines for a living.
_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.

[baked beetle]

Lots of good info here for you. So far everybody is right
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[Dcarl01]

Ok I pulled the oil pump and found a VZ-30 and as for the trans it's a 002 close ratio with .457 ring and pinion and a super diff Tires are bfg 33x10.5 so if there is a cam swap in my future what do you guys recommend, keep in mind I'm hellbent on using my idas and my long block. Thank you all for the info [/quote]

[mightymouse]

Using your longblock is fine. Its just a quick cam swap man.
Id split it and get that lifter bore destroyer out of there.
Gonna need to either inspect the lifter bores yourself (provided you know what to look for) or send the case to rimco and let them have a peek.

Put something more useable in. Engle 120 would work similar and be much less stress on the lifter bores. Need to see what chambers you have on what heads.
Can prob clean the chambers and open em up a bit and get you back down closer to 9 to 1.
Even if you get to 10 to 1 and run an engle 125, youll be much better off.
If bet cash the lifter faces are destroyed and that vz30 is losing its lobes.

Pretty common for them, and the fact that we dont know what oil was run in it and or what valve spring pressure were used when it was assembled long ago.

You could have some really nice parts and be just a few changes away from awesomeness.
or you could cheap out and "try" to run it as is and end up ruining any of the good stuff you do have left.
I wouldnt suggest trying to "street" an ex race motor thats been sitting for years.


_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.

[Alstrup]

If those heads were designed to run 8000 rpm in a race engine, they most likely have way too large ports to work decent on the street. I would recommend you to take a couple of pics of the ports and/or take a port volume measurement.
This is one of the disadvantages with detuning a race engine.

T

[spencerfvee]

hi wow that engle VZ 30 cam is as full drag race only cam 507 lift with one to one rockers 298 duration. you would not be happy with that cam lol. cams are a builders choice . there are so many cams out there . and every one has there choice of cam they like to run . heres my choice of 3 engle cams i like . a lot . a engle 110 a engle 130 and a engle V26 cam . the V 26 cam. i am useing V 26 cam in my new 2180 motor. it has 339 lift at the cam you can use from 1:2.1 rockers to 1:4.1 rockers. its like a engle 110 cam and a engle 120 cam all in one cam .very street friendy goes to 6,500 rpms great bottom end .this cam is very easy on the valve train . and works well with big valve heads .a lot of street buggies with big rear tires use this cam. make sure when you take your motor a part you check the lifter bores for wear . those VZ cams tear up lifter bores . allso when you run your 48 IDAS i have found out that a mallory dizy works well with 48 IDAs. i set the mallory up for 14 degs intal. all in by 2,600 rpms. adv. all in by 32 degs total . i would run a 1 1/2 header or a 1 5/8 header they work well for a street motor they give good bottom end power . there both a good all around header size .for the street . your trans should work very well on the street with the 33 " tires just my two cents good luck with your motor spencerfvee .............................................................................

[Dcarl01]

You guys rock! Thanks again for all the useful info, but just one last question ( yeah right! ). If I were to go with a engle 120 where should I start with the idas? Vents, etubes, jets etc. I will keep you guys posted on the progress and get some pics up. Thanks again

[mightymouse]

What venturi are in your carbs?
_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.

[Dcarl01]

Not sure, they are brand new in the box so whatever they come with

[mightymouse]

NOS old schools or the new empi ones?
I dont know whats in the new ones out of the box.

Prob best bet to take them out, look down the throats and read what the chokes say on em. Then pull the main jet stacks and idle jets and tell us what airs and jets and vents you have now.
Then we can tell ya which way to go.
_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.

[jfats808]

Pull every jet out out of the idas, log em down, and check the floats. I'd go as far as putting them all back in filling with some carb cleaner in the bowls and hand priming to check the pump jets.
The guy who taught me most of what I know about Vw engines ran a 1776 vz30, 1.25s, and street eliminators for 15 years. I heard that engine and sounded very crispy. He just tore it down, replaced with unitecs, new bearings all around, a w125, cb bigfoots, and r/r-ed the rest with new rings and self honed cylinders. Lifters bores fine, no wobbly guides, and no sunken seats. I thought that was just short of amazing. His response was that his geometry was set up correctly that is what it will show.
Yes that cam is aggressive, especially with how much lift is at the lobe. When someone says its too much, I have to ask....for what?
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2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48DRLA's W125

Check your oil levels routinely!

[mightymouse]

How many "years" doesnt mean anything. That guy prob drove that engine 500 miles per year MAX. like most aircooled owners who think they are special.
Try doing stuff like myself and few others on here.
Ive put over 60k miles on my bus/engine since jan 2009.

THAT is a setup you can ask questions about because it is driven everywhere. To and from shows/events and down the freeway for 12 hours straight at a time loaded with 1500 lbs in the back.

Not some POS hawaiin tech 1776 with IDAs an fk89, no oil cooler in the shroud and stuffed in a manx.

Nothing against you personally jfats but i have seen the stuff most guys from hawaii do and them and the baja builders of yesteryear are the stuff im most harsh on.

Bigger is not always better and longevity doesnt mean driven twice a month for 20 mins at a time.
_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.

[jfats808]

#1 we are limited by space, Hawaii is small. I drive mine daily, 26 miles roundtrip if its sunny. If I were on the mainland I would have no problems driving mine across states. As for the other engine builders in Hawaii that build rediculous combos, guess what they git em all over pal. Yup even in the states. It's nice you drive yours loaded from state to state. Wish I could do that. Ahh shit, guess what I live on a 140 square mile island. Guess I can't do 12 hour drives, and why would I , that's like 20 times around the island. You shouldn't discriminate guys from Hawaii especially because of one fool that runs a 1776 , no oil cooler and fk89 cam. Shows no class and big arrogance to assume everyone is like that here. Likewise, nothing personal but its remarks like that show true colors. Way to be the judge. In this case one bad Apple certainly doesn't spoil the rest. Hope your day gets better and realize guys in Hawaii arent all dumbasses like you make us to be. Good day.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48DRLA's W125

Check your oil levels routinely!

[mightymouse]

Well i like your post and i agree with every part of it. And i normally dont make comments like that, but after doing this 20 years.... no thats not a long time but no im not wet behind the ears.... EVERY hawaiin engine ive ever seen has been the same. And the concensus amongst EVERY builder i know is that the hawaiin thing is "bigger is better".

So i call it like i see it, im not a PC kinda guy. I say what i see. I know many these days have a soft shell and cant handle when someone says something "not nice" but thats how it is and will always be in my life.

If someone walks up to me and says... YOUR AN ASSHOLE. Thats fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but i can say, they would prob be partially right. Why because i refuse to be a dumbed down politically correct pussy like most are these days.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. Im not out to be malicious and hateful in any way, im just saying what ive seen. So recognize that and take it as you may. I even stated in my post, nothing against you personally because maybe your not like the rest. But trust me, i have many hawaiin friends... and when they share the same sentiments about the majority of their people.... i know im on the right track.

That explain it a bit better?
_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.