009 timing question

itsonlysir · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: 009 timing question

ok i have had my car for about 5 years . i have had a 30/31 solex carb , 009 dizzy . my motor is a 1600 with counter weighted crank and 110 cam . stock heads .

everything has been doing ok . but lately its been getting a bit hot . witch leads me to think its a timing issue .. i know to static time it at 7.5 or 10 deg after TDC . then to set it at 32 * after TDC due to the advancement for the 009 dizzy ..

ok again my car seams to run and drive great . but i hit it with a timing light and at a decent RPM im at like 45-50 deg timing. if i start to turn the distributor back towards 32* the motor stumbles and wants to die ..

does this mean my carb and idle are ( off ) and thus i have my timing way off to compensate ?

do i need to set it at 32* and then adjust everything else to get it back to running smooth ?
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Glenn · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:

You should only set a mechanical distributor at full advance. So a 009 is set to 28-32* BTDC @ 3500rpm.

You'd be better off replacing the 009 with either a 019 or a SVDA from Aircooled.net.
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itsonlysir · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject:

looking at the pully .. btdc is to the left of the 0 mark correct ???

i dont have the money for a new distributor right now .. just want this one to run the best that i can .
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

Glenn · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject:

68IHscout · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject:

[quote="itsonlysir"]looking at the pully .. btdc is to the left of the 0 mark correct ???

Nope , to the left its AFTER TOP DEAD CENTER

itsonlysir · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject:

ok i had the them mixed up ... but its right on the car .

but i feel my question was not answered .. with my car running fine and driving good but at a around 3500 its siting at like 45 deg * btdc . but like i said if i try to adjust the timing down to 32 * the motor wants to shut off .

so should i set it as close to 32 * as i can then adjust my carb to get it to run ... ?

thanks for any help i receive ..
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

doc1369 · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject:

Just to cover all bases what spark plug wire are you hooking the timing light to?
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itsonlysir · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject:

#1
thats what the book that came with it said !
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

itsonlysir · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject:

dont think it matters but i have a eagle 110 cam . i got the motor to drop to 40* btdc . but it sounded like a Harley , lol . lobe lobe lobe . like it was about to cut off , but it stays running .
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

doc1369 · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject:

another thing to check is the condition of the points. I had a set fuse and one side broke away from the arm. Same problem but mine was very hard to start when it happened. I personally have no idea how the cam would effect it sorry.
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vw_hank · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject:

itsonlysir · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject:

yea . i do think that is the problem . i set this timing a wile back i was fresh into vw's at the time and had no timing light .. i think that stupidly i got to motor running ( what i thought ) WAS GOOD AND LEFT IT .

it has been getting hot after a good 45 min ride on the interstate for a wile . a friend of mine was doing his timing and i borrowed his light .. and saw it was like at 47 * . so now i know something needs to change . thanks for all in input . and anymore that comes on this subject !
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

candymustang66 · Samba Member Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 2352

47 total advance is way too far.
the pinging and detonation will destroy the motor.
btw, something to learn, even inaudible knock is BAD. (SAE.org papers)

this car needs YOU to time it, there is no ECU or knock sensor backing up
your errors.

edit your first post with before , at each AFTER.

make sure you know where zero is on the PULLEY. find it or mark it.
and where 30 degs BTDC. is.
try to stay at 30 or below. 17degrees beyond, is OVER THE TOP. bad.

009
set the static time to 0 , just so car starts
then set the max all- in to 30 degrees BTDC. (to right of 0 pulley mark)
if car fails to start easy then the advance mechanism, may be bad ,or sticking. test it by hand for smooth action and no sticking.
warning some 009s are modified, or use other advancing rates and end points. Too many clones, caused that. so use the light and check the
adcance on yours and report the rate of advance and end point.

eg;:advance at 1500 = deg.
advance at 2500
and where is ALL-IN. deg. 2900, 3500 ? more?

if running a higher compression ratio you need less advance, just like a turbo motor.
if you milled head or block(deck) and did not use shims, your CR is way out of stock.

great words and work here.
http://www.vw-resource.com/009_history.html

ejonn · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:34 am Post subject:

Get your idle good first. I like about 5btdc to start with my 009. once the idle is how you want it, then check max advance. then change it a degree or two at a time at idle. adjusting your idle each time. repeat as necessary to set your max while keeping your idle stable
don't try and set it with your engine screaming at you

itsonlysir · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject:

i will do some research and get back to yall very soon with my findings .. like i said this car has been running like this for few years ,, and running good . i can run 80-85 on interstate . and out runs most other 1600's ..

i just know what it should be . and seeing it soo off i was shocked .. i have stopped driving the car till i get it right .. thanks guys.
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

vw_hank · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:41 am Post subject:

Joel · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:58 am Post subject:

So you were driving on the interstate regularly at 85mph with the timing set at 47btdc? Shocked

You are so lucky that engine is even running still and not a collection of pieces scattered across the road.

I suspect it wasn't quite that high, you would have noticed that engine pinging like an SOB and trying to self destruct especially with todays crappy fuels.
I've seen type1 pistons destroyed with far less advance than that.

itsonlysir · Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject:

im working on it today and have not changed anything , i will double check , but i wasnt drinking the other night lol and what i saw shocked me as well ... i have not herd any noticeable noises from the motor . i did a run with 40 vws about 2 weeks ago . and none of them mentioned it sounded bad .. maybe my dizzy loosened up .. ill check that as well .
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

itsonlysir · Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject:

this is at idle
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

this is at 3500 rpm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

i got it set at 32* at and idling at 900 rpm ... and it sounds damn good .

But after a decent little drive it started to smell like it was getting hot . once i got out it was pretty hot .. now i was getting on it a little bit to see how it preformed under load ...
Also it seams to have a bit more of a flat spot then before proper adjustment ???

any idea or input ??
[/img]
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

itsonlysir · Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject:

also tonight is a bit rainy , not to bad tho .. and she is backfiring after a downshift or after acceleration . seams to be a bit throttle jumpy as well . and now she is cutting off at a stop light .. idle still set at 900 rpm . might bump it up a bit ... do ya guys think my carb settings are off now ?
_________________
life is like a doughnut , you just got to role with it .

Im just a squarel,trying to get my nut !!

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