I posted my 356 A build on the Registry. But since they went 'private', I requested my thread removed (moved to KCW). Rusty came from KCW, would he have joined if it was 'pay or play'? How many others like us will be shut out? Yes, I can afford $35, I just spent $150 on 8 ounces of wax, so the money is irrelevant. The reason I'm not joining is more philosophical than monetary.
The registry is doing it self a dis-service. As someone (Matthew D.) pointed out, their moves are against their own mission statement. Something like 'to further the growth of the 356 movement'. Closing the registry is against this goal (or in some strange bizzaro world it isn't??).
1) What happens if someone needs to ask a quick question? How long till you become a member? Days? Weeks? Months? I doubt their systems are as up to snuff like here on the samba (if you want a featured ad here, it's instant!).
2) Also, say I see a smoking deal on car/part on the registry. How do I buy it? I can't. Why would someone advertise there now? Totally pointless. Here you can message even if you are not a forum user.
3) Does this mean they can bash people and cars and have no response back? Seems pretty weak to me. They can't handle someone saying something back and hurting their little feelings? (I suspect this is the main reason, they just can't hack it in the real world, so they're closing themselves off to it).
PS Barry Brisco is arguing against the closing of the registry!! Hell has indeed frozen over! Way to fight the powers that be Barry. Futile, but amusing!
I tried to make the point that is is philosophical over on the thread. I think a lot of those guys are old school and subscribe to the idea that you shouldn't get something for nothing, and since they view everything through the prism of material value they can't see that value can come in other forms that are not tangible, like good advice, good will and good reputation. I have no proof of this, but it seems that most of the younger guys buying 356s or who are interested in buying one are coming out of the VW scene where The Samba is the end all and they are used to it being free. If more and more of the younger guys get sick of the conservative climate over at the Registry and start posting here more often the Registry will eventually suffer even more loss of membership. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
My retirement plan:
1958 PG/SG Standard
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 crusty double cab
1960 convertible bug
1962 So-22 Mosaic Westfalia
1963 356 B coupe runner
1963 356 B coupe in pieces
1965 standard sunroof bus
1967 912
Joined: February 08, 2002 Posts: 12918 Location: phila-DELFT-ia
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject:
Braukuche wrote:
but it seems that most of the younger guys buying 356s or who are interested in buying one are coming out of the VW scene where The Samba is the end all and they are used to it being free. .
this is true. i'm not exactly young but i am certainly not one of those stodges.
_________________ ﻥ ﺥﻡ‎
Quote:
mannys66: South Philly Van Club, only the most influential and freshest van club in the vw scene
NXSDude. Try showing up at a Rolex event with a fake Rolex. Or buy a counterfeit Rosetta Stone on Ebay and try and call the real tech support number. Or show up at Pebble Beach or Amelia in a replica Speedster. 356 replicas are just that. Fun to drive? Sure. Easy to maintain? Sure. Inexpensive? Comparatively. A Porsche 356? No! I don't think it gives people the right to be rude to you, but I can understand their view point. Heck I get that way when I see people drop non-616 engines in 912s. To each his own.
I don't own a 356 nor do I plan on owning one but I do enjoy reading the forums of other cars than what I have\plan on having. I know I'm pulling up an old post, sorry but I had to make a point and this struck a cord with me.
You did the marquis a disservice by using Rolex as an example because Rolex has the same image problem that Porsche does. Tag Hauer might have made a different analogy, but Rolex is elitism, just like the general public perception of Porsche. I understand the point you are trying to make, but...
When you think of collectible, expensive, rare (relatively), and popular vintage performance\sports cars, the Shelby Cobra has to be one of the standards of the group. Now, take a trip over to SAAC (Shelby American Auto Club), THE Registry and club of Shelby cars. Now hit their forum. Do you need a membership? Nope. Do they welcome with open arms replicas and tributes. Most definitely. Has there been a 356 that has sold for $7.4 million? I don't think so. Do they not only welcome but expect modified cars? Yes. Do they race them? Yes. Just something to think about.
Joined: March 16, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Eugene, OR
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject:
Not sure I can make any connection with my post from another thread and this one, but I understand my viewpoint my differ from others. A recent experience with a 356 Registry moderator has soured my impression of at least one of its members and the recent announcement regarding closing the forum to non-paying member validates my opinion (in my mind at least). For me it is about the flow of information from those who've gained it through many years of experience to those who are freshly exposed. Yes the 912bbs has a section for renegades, which generally consists of people who've modified their 912's by changing the engine. I am a purist so I choose to not follow the posts there. Since the cars did originally come from the factory I accept their place among us. For someone to be surprised that their kit car isn't accepted by the community as a whole is shocking to me. I guess if they were to take the car to the factory and ask to have a full restoration done and have it accepted by them, then maybe I will need to rethink my beliefs. Granted I've had my 912 for only 23 years (well over half my life) so I recognize I still have much to learn.
Joined: March 16, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Eugene, OR
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject:
It was a moderator. Maybe I am unclear how the heirchy works in the Registry and I am mis-directing my sadness for how I was treated. His personal emails to me left me bewildered and feeling that I was not a member of his Porsche community. I am not sure if him knowing of my 20 years of PCA membership and being a past region president would have given me the credentials for him to share his secrets of the inner circle. Regardless, I will keep the faith.
Not sure I can make any connection with my post from another thread and this one, but I understand my viewpoint my differ from others.
Actually, it was from page 2 of this thread.
Quote:
For someone to be surprised that their kit car isn't accepted by the community as a whole is shocking to me. I guess if they were to take the car to the factory and ask to have a full restoration done and have it accepted by them, then maybe I will need to rethink my beliefs. Granted I've had my 912 for only 23 years (well over half my life) so I recognize I still have much to learn.
Imitation is the highest form of flattery. If someone had a kit car and was trying to pass it off as the real deal, then I could understand blacklisting them. Tributes do not lessen the value of the real deal, it's been proven over and over it actually increases the value of the genuine article. I guess someone not accepting a person with the same interest as the rest of the 'community' because they had the poor man's copy instead of the expensive one as a whole is shocking to me. I guess it might be because I come from the muscle car and vintage racing side of things, we see it as a passion in the dream and experience. And granted, I've only had my GT 350 clone for 30 years (well over half my life as well) so I recognize I still have much to learn.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but from an outsider's point of view, this is exactly what the attitude the OP was pointing out and was told didn't exist.
I'll get out of the 365 sandbox now and go play in my own. Regardless of my or anyone else's opinions...just enjoy the hell out of whatever you have. They are cars first, investments second.
Joined: March 16, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Eugene, OR
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:48 am Post subject:
Did your GT350 clone start out with a VW chassis? Is it powered by a VW motor? Does it have a fiberglass body? I'll venture to say "no". So outside of looks, your car has as much in common with a 356 replica as does a factory produced 356.
Quote:
Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
I would point back to Rolex or Tag. I think I would argue neither of those companies view imitation in a flattering light. I think a Chinese-made knock-off may be illegal.
Quote:
I'll get out of the 365 sandbox now and go play in my own.
I would pay to see this same discussion over on any Ferrari board.
"I've got a Pontiac Fiero with a 365 GTB body kit. I recently went to a local Ferrari function and I seemed to not be welcomed with open arms by other Ferrari owners. Why?"
Joined: November 14, 2003 Posts: 944 Location: Stockton, Ca. area
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:11 am Post subject:
This "attitude" is nothing new. I was a PCA member from 1962 until 1974. My dad was the Golden Gate Region President in 68 and I had many fun times as a kid. We found as the "New" 911's and 914's came out that the whole vibe of the club changed and the old guard started to close ranks. We saw the club changing and fracturing so we left. And as with any club 10% of the people do 90% of the work. I enjoy my time with the VW crowd and have made many friends here. But lets face it we'd all like to own a nice 356. _________________ 71 Westy Roadcow
67 Panel
63 Bug
Did your GT350 clone start out with a VW chassis? Is it powered by a VW motor? Does it have a fiberglass body? I'll venture to say "no". So outside of looks, your car has as much in common with a 356 replica as does a factory produced 356.
Nope, it doesn't. It started as a plain-jane 200cid Mustang. Ok, since you went there, a Cobra replica, with a tube chassis, Mustang suspension up front, Corvette rear, crate motor, fiberglass body as as much in common with a real 427 SC as a kit 365 has with the real deal. The difference is, the SAAC will still welcome it with out prejudice. Same with the Superperformance replicas.
I'm just saying, in my mind, it doesn't have to be this way. More so, the bigger point is this thread is full of people saying it doesn't happen...yet it obviously DOES happen.
Quote:
I would point back to Rolex or Tag. I think I would argue neither of those companies view imitation in a flattering light. I think a Chinese-made knock-off may be illegal.
The legality is up to the parent company, not the driver\owner. You don't own the trademarks, patents, etc. If Porsche wants to swing a big stick, let them do it. Carroll Shelby did and he won. Now replicas can't be called Cobras unless the manufacturer of the kit wants to donate to his charity for organ transplants. He protected his intellectual rights, as he has the right to. The point I was trying to make (and obviously failed) is Rolex has the public impression of being on the wrists of people like Trump - arrogant elitists - where TH is more directed to the man who's 'made it.' Just look at the ads. Rolex shows up in WSJ, Forbes, Robb, etc. TH advertises there but also in R&T, C&D, and other publications using guys like Jeff Gordon, Steve McQueen, Tanya Streeter. Rolex? Placido Domingo. Hey, if your community likes and wants the public impression you have, that's great. You have that right and whatever makes you happy, go for it. Just don't sit there and say it doesn't exist.
Quote:
I would pay to see this same discussion over on any Ferrari board.
"I've got a Pontiac Fiero with a 365 GTB body kit. I recently went to a local Ferrari function and I seemed to not be welcomed with open arms by other Ferrari owners. Why?"
I bet you would. The Ferrari clan is so much more down-to-earth...
Joined: June 14, 2002 Posts: 4192 Location: Concord/Charlotte NC
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:24 am Post subject:
ImAddicted wrote:
When you think of collectible, expensive, rare (relatively), and popular vintage performance\sports cars, the Shelby Cobra has to be one of the standards of the group. Now, take a trip over to SAAC (Shelby American Auto Club), THE Registry and club of Shelby cars. Now hit their forum. Do you need a membership? Nope. Do they welcome with open arms replicas and tributes. Most definitely. Has there been a 356 that has sold for $7.4 million? I don't think so. Do they not only welcome but expect modified cars? Yes. Do they race them? Yes. Just something to think about.
that's not really a fair comparison.
First, those cars are primarily owned by muscle car guys, who traditionally have little to no regard for originality or the non monetary value in an original car.
Second. the original Cobras were produced in such low numbers that it would be impossible that everyone with the pocket book and desire to own one could actually own one. Hence the huge and devoted aftermarket following.
Third. the Cobra was never an actual mass production sports car like the 356. It was cobbled together from bits of Ford and British parts and built strictly for the purpose of destroying competition on the track.
Fourth, the Cobra aftermarket is impressively awesome. Many of the cars people are building are far superior to the original in their engineering and build quality. the same can not be said about fake Porsches. Most of the time it seems the replicas are poorly fitted glass tubs bolted and drywall screwed to a VW pan with 4 lug chrome wheels and crappy super beetle engines. Sure there are a lot of nicely built replicas but it does not seem to be the norm.
Lastly, most Cobra kit owners make no effort to conceal the true identity of their cars as fakes. Some do but usually not. On the other hand. that happens a lot with Fake 356 owners, when presenting their car try to pass of their cars as real.
Joined: March 16, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Eugene, OR
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:13 am Post subject:
I don't think any of the responses to this topic have indicated that any kind of negative public perception doesn't exist. I am fully aware of the perception that some people harbor towards the Porsche marque and much of it is from outsiders looking in.
I am not familiar with Tanya Streeter, but there is no bigger icon in the early Porsche community than Steve McQueen. Look up the record setting 911S that recently sold at auction. That guy's sweat contained Porsche DNA.
What is in Jeff's stable? A 911GT2. I am a Chevy guy and Jeff is my favorite Nascar driver followed by JJ and Stewart (now that he isn't driving a Toyota).
Maybe the Porsche community can learn from Nascar. Who doesn't represent the blue collar, hard-working, Tag Hauer-wearing, anti-elitest population better than Nascar? We know there are never any conflicts among Nascar drivers or followers and they certainly have no public perception problems. To level the playing field, they all drive replicas of one another, with cars fitting the same template. The only differences in all the cars are the graphics right? How is it that I can like Montoya but dislike Kyle Busch? How far off topic have I gotten? If only Murphy was my copilot he'd have stopped me from making any commentsin this thread.
I don't think any of the responses to this topic have indicated that any kind of negative public perception doesn't exist. I am fully aware of the perception that some people harbor towards the Porsche marque and much of it is from outsiders looking in.
I am not familiar with Tanya Streeter, but there is no bigger icon in the early Porsche community than Steve McQueen. Look up the record setting 911S that recently sold at auction. That guy's sweat contained Porsche DNA.
What is in Jeff's stable? A 911GT2. I am a Chevy guy and Jeff is my favorite Nascar driver followed by JJ and Stewart (now that he isn't driving a Toyota).
Maybe the Porsche community can learn from Nascar. Who doesn't represent the blue collar, hard-working, Tag Hauer-wearing, anti-elitest population better than Nascar? We know there are never any conflicts among Nascar drivers or followers and they certainly have no public perception problems. To level the playing field, they all drive replicas of one another, with cars fitting the same template. The only differences in all the cars are the graphics right? How is it that I can like Montoya but dislike Kyle Busch? How far off topic have I gotten? If only Murphy was my copilot he'd have stopped me from making any commentsin this thread.
Why even have a discussion about the Registry accepting replicas when they won't even real owners who won't pony up $35. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
My retirement plan:
1958 PG/SG Standard
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 crusty double cab
1960 convertible bug
1962 So-22 Mosaic Westfalia
1963 356 B coupe runner
1963 356 B coupe in pieces
1965 standard sunroof bus
1967 912
Barry Brisco wants an open (anyone) online vote on the subject. I'm impressed!
Dan, thank you for carrying on the good fight. I know it must be hard to be the voice of reason with guys like Vic and Charlie White around. Props!!
Also, Mark summed it up best; "My fear is those who once wanted a 356, finally buy one , but choose not to join the Registry for the same reasons many 356ers left PCA. In closing the more who participate in the Forum, the better the future for the 356 community."
There is mechanisms on the internet that PAY for participation! If the registry were wise, they would talk to Ev and ask him for suggestions on non invasive ways to pay for the forum. Google ads, banners, featured ads etc. I think Ev has a brilliant strategy.
I have a uncomfortable question to ask; if the Samba went private (ie $35/year), would you join? _________________ 57 PGSG 'Carpet Bus'
Joined: September 10, 2002 Posts: 3922 Location: Arizona
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject:
dawerks wrote:
I have a uncomfortable question to ask; if the Samba went private (ie $35/year), would you join?
I can guarantee that most current users wouldn't join and only a very small % of potential new users would start. Charging would kill it dead pretty quickly. But luckily, that is something that will never happen. As we've said many times in the past, people support the site differently: money, time, technical knowledge, content, etc. It's all good.
[Edited to clarify that I am only talking about TheSamba.com. I don't claim to know how users on any other site would behave.] _________________ TheSamba.com on Facebook | Donate to TheSamba.com If your post begins "I know this is against the rules but..." just stop typing.
Last edited by Jennepher on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Thank you! I think the Registry could learn from that. Thesamba is 10-100x the sizes and popularity and the site admins already know what a catastrophe it would be to charge for membership. _________________ 57 PGSG 'Carpet Bus'
Joined: September 10, 2002 Posts: 3922 Location: Arizona
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject:
dawerks wrote:
Thank you! I think the Registry could learn from that. Thesamba is 10-100x the sizes and popularity and the site admins already know what a catastrophe it would be to charge for membership.
Well, the two sites are different. A smaller, more specific site can probably get away with charging a membership fee easier (in my opinion). _________________ TheSamba.com on Facebook | Donate to TheSamba.com If your post begins "I know this is against the rules but..." just stop typing.
Your damn right I would. I don't live in Mamby Pamby land. I've never toiled for free and don't expect anybody else to.
Now why don't you all sing a chorus of " we are the world "
You missed the point. The point is that thesamba's toil isn't collected by $35 increments. The site admins have figured out a more intelligent and modern way to run the site. _________________ 57 PGSG 'Carpet Bus'
Joined: July 15, 2006 Posts: 859 Location: San Clemente, Ca.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:58 pm Post subject:
dsrtfox wrote:
Your damn right I would. I don't live in Mamby Pamby land. I've never toiled for free and don't expect anybody else to.
Now why don't you all sing a chorus of " we are the world "
I am truly sorry to hear that, whoever you really are. I do somethings for free each week at my shop whether it's advice, a small part, or actual labor. That's my choice. There can be no greater joy in giving to others. I don't want to make the mistake of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Jack Staggs
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Google ads, banners, featured ads etc. I think Ev has a brilliant strategy.
