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[email protected]
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Joined: May 01, 2003
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Location: camas washington
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: 68 Fuel injection basic cleaning with motor out |
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Hello having motor gone thru in the next couple of weeks and our 68 squareback has been running well but big oil leaks. With all the FI stuff coming off what should I be cleaning well and with what type of product? Did a search for this but could find the answer. This car sat garaged since 1980 till a couple years ago when we got it going after it ingested a bunch of Mt St Helens ash. Can't wait to have this motor clean inside and out. Thanks for any input
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72 Westfalia "LBC" Lazy Boy Camper
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KTPhil
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Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Why is the FI stuff coming off?
Did you replace the rings after it ingested the ash? Really abrasive stuff! I'd even be concerned about bearings if air got sucked into the oil breather path.
I had my motor on an engine stand, rolled a wheel barrow under it, then used spray engine cleaner and paint thinner, and let it drip into the barrow. Straightened/repainted all the tin before I put it back on. |
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[email protected]
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Joined: May 01, 2003
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Location: camas washington
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: |
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With the injested ash and a little low compression I want to rebuild to make the car reliable for the wife. Hunted down 3 different FI parts to get it rolling several years ago. The tin and all accessories with be cleaned with love but I was just looking for advice on cleaning the FI componets before bolted back up. Tried looking thru the FI sticky but couldn't find this info.
thanks
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72 Westfalia "LBC" Lazy Boy Camper
66 Singlecab
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Mike Fisher
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I've always used gasoline/paint brush in an oil drain pan for cleaning parts.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
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JSMskater
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Joined: February 01, 2006
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Location: Las Cruces NM
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| I've always used gasoline/paint brush in an oil drain pan for cleaning parts. |
but NOT on sensitive electronic FI components Mike! 
for the outer casings of all the FI components use carb or choke cleaner or even better just soapy water and spray it onto a rag and wipe and wipe and wipe until its clean. tooth brushes work well for the hard angles and weird spots.
for the electrical contacts themselves, again a tooth brush will be useful, and you should use electrical contact cleaner -- its available at any old car parts store.
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SamSmith
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Any solvent would be pretty much the same as carb cleaner, just depends on your preference, but they all cut grease and oil. You can get some acetone in a one gallon bucket at lowes, which I like better than solvents in a can |
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[email protected]
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Joined: May 01, 2003
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Location: camas washington
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like I'll hit the FI with a light cleaning with contact cleaner and clean like crazy with a tooth brush. Little carb cleaner for the inside stuff. Any other advice?
thanks
shawn
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72 Westfalia "LBC" Lazy Boy Camper
66 Singlecab
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JSMskater
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| SamSmith wrote: |
| Any solvent would be pretty much the same as carb cleaner, just depends on your preference, but they all cut grease and oil. You can get some acetone in a one gallon bucket at lowes, which I like better than solvents in a can |
sure, just like HCL is the same as acetic acid right? they're both acids. 
the reason I said no to gasoline, and strong/industrial acetone is in my opinion worse, is because, for example, the MAP sensor has a rubber O-ring inside that can deteriorate if either the gas or acetone seeps through the sealing edge and gets to the O-ring. most of the sensors have plastic or bakelite plug housings -- which can also be weakened or eroded by a strong enough solvent.
carb cleaner is pretty watered down stuff in comparison, and as an aerosol is also less likely to puddle and then seep into areas its not supposed to. finally, if you spray it onto a rag, and wipe, like i suggested, you also minimize this risk too.
but go ahead and dunk em in buckets of acetone. what do I know.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
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Location: Des moines Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| SamSmith wrote: |
| Any solvent would be pretty much the same as carb cleaner, just depends on your preference, but they all cut grease and oil. You can get some acetone in a one gallon bucket at lowes, which I like better than solvents in a can |
sure, just like HCL is the same as acetic acid right? they're both acids.
the reason I said no to gasoline, and strong/industrial acetone is in my opinion worse, is because, for example, the MAP sensor has a rubber O-ring inside that can deteriorate if either the gas or acetone seeps through the sealing edge and gets to the O-ring. most of the sensors have plastic or bakelite plug housings -- which can also be weakened or eroded by a strong enough solvent.
carb cleaner is pretty watered down stuff in comparison, and as an aerosol is also less likely to puddle and then seep into areas its not supposed to. finally, if you spray it onto a rag, and wipe, like i suggested, you also minimize this risk too.
but go ahead and dunk em in buckets of acetone. what do I know. |
I think you are just slightly off. There is nothing industrial about acetone...neither does it have any real usefulness in cleaning automotive parts. It is terrible for cleaning/disolving accumiated grease for some reason.
Gasoline should never be used because of its vapor characteristics and toxicity...and...the MPS lives full of gasoline vapors and they have little effect on the sealing ring.
Carb cleaners...especially those like Gumout and Berrymans B-12...are far stronger blends than either acetone or gasoline...and both contain generally MEK, acetone, alcohol and toluene.
The very nice thing about carb cleaner blends is that because of the blend they work very fast on virtually every grease/oil.....and flash off fast before they can do real damage to most rubber parts. Ray |
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JSMskater
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| SamSmith wrote: |
| Any solvent would be pretty much the same as carb cleaner, just depends on your preference, but they all cut grease and oil. You can get some acetone in a one gallon bucket at lowes, which I like better than solvents in a can |
sure, just like HCL is the same as acetic acid right? they're both acids.
the reason I said no to gasoline, and strong/industrial acetone is in my opinion worse, is because, for example, the MAP sensor has a rubber O-ring inside that can deteriorate if either the gas or acetone seeps through the sealing edge and gets to the O-ring. most of the sensors have plastic or bakelite plug housings -- which can also be weakened or eroded by a strong enough solvent.
carb cleaner is pretty watered down stuff in comparison, and as an aerosol is also less likely to puddle and then seep into areas its not supposed to. finally, if you spray it onto a rag, and wipe, like i suggested, you also minimize this risk too.
but go ahead and dunk em in buckets of acetone. what do I know. |
I think you are just slightly off. There is nothing industrial about acetone...neither does it have any real usefulness in cleaning automotive parts. It is terrible for cleaning/disolving accumiated grease for some reason.
Gasoline should never be used because of its vapor characteristics and toxicity...and...the MPS lives full of gasoline vapors and they have little effect on the sealing ring.
Carb cleaners...especially those like Gumout and Berrymans B-12...are far stronger blends than either acetone or gasoline...and both contain generally MEK, acetone, alcohol and toluene.
The very nice thing about carb cleaner blends is that because of the blend they work very fast on virtually every grease/oil.....and flash off fast before they can do real damage to most rubber parts. Ray |
interesting. learn somethin new every day. though I have had that inner O-ring get destroyed by gas on a MAP twice -- once when a whole can of gas dumped over my toolbox and another in a mystery parts CL deal where the cardboard was soaked in it.
maybe I buy really crappy carb cleaner, but if I turn it upside and spray it into a styrofoam cup so it comes out a liquid, it never burns through the bottom as quickly as the same volume as gas -- haven't compared to acetone though. I use the NAPA brand, blue/grey can.
in any case I think all of these are overkill -- you can just use some dawn soap in a plastic tub with water and toothbrush and it all comes right off.
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SamSmith
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Sheeesh, I just like it cause its in a tub and you can pour it into a container then dip parts, rather than spray. I didn't mean to upset anyone. Also acetone with a brush got all my non f.I. parts clean, but I don't know anything about the plastic and rubber f.I. components and I don't have an f.I. car so no one should even take mind to what I say anyways. It was just my input to the o.p. sorry.  |
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raygreenwood
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Location: Des moines Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| SamSmith wrote: |
| Any solvent would be pretty much the same as carb cleaner, just depends on your preference, but they all cut grease and oil. You can get some acetone in a one gallon bucket at lowes, which I like better than solvents in a can |
sure, just like HCL is the same as acetic acid right? they're both acids.
the reason I said no to gasoline, and strong/industrial acetone is in my opinion worse, is because, for example, the MAP sensor has a rubber O-ring inside that can deteriorate if either the gas or acetone seeps through the sealing edge and gets to the O-ring. most of the sensors have plastic or bakelite plug housings -- which can also be weakened or eroded by a strong enough solvent.
carb cleaner is pretty watered down stuff in comparison, and as an aerosol is also less likely to puddle and then seep into areas its not supposed to. finally, if you spray it onto a rag, and wipe, like i suggested, you also minimize this risk too.
but go ahead and dunk em in buckets of acetone. what do I know. |
I think you are just slightly off. There is nothing industrial about acetone...neither does it have any real usefulness in cleaning automotive parts. It is terrible for cleaning/disolving accumiated grease for some reason.
Gasoline should never be used because of its vapor characteristics and toxicity...and...the MPS lives full of gasoline vapors and they have little effect on the sealing ring.
Carb cleaners...especially those like Gumout and Berrymans B-12...are far stronger blends than either acetone or gasoline...and both contain generally MEK, acetone, alcohol and toluene.
The very nice thing about carb cleaner blends is that because of the blend they work very fast on virtually every grease/oil.....and flash off fast before they can do real damage to most rubber parts. Ray |
interesting. learn somethin new every day. though I have had that inner O-ring get destroyed by gas on a MAP twice -- once when a whole can of gas dumped over my toolbox and another in a mystery parts CL deal where the cardboard was soaked in it.
maybe I buy really crappy carb cleaner, but if I turn it upside and spray it into a styrofoam cup so it comes out a liquid, it never burns through the bottom as quickly as the same volume as gas -- haven't compared to acetone though. I use the NAPA brand, blue/grey can.
in any case I think all of these are overkill -- you can just use some dawn soap in a plastic tub with water and toothbrush and it all comes right off. |
Its the chemical formulation coupled with the rubber or plastic. Too many are assuming that a solvent is a solvent is a solvent.
For instance...no...paint thinner or mineral spirtits are not the same as carb cleaner or gasoline.
Mineral spirits is mostly xylene or toluene...depedning on brand...because mineral spirits is a generic term.
Each plastic and rubber is made of different compounds and building blocks and coms apart differently...if at all...with different solvents.
Yes...gasoline...if left soaking on it...can destroy MPS rubber by swelling it.
Styrofoam cups...are expanded foam styrene...and will melt very qucikly with acetone....but alcohol, methanol, and a huge range of others will not touch it. Mineral spirits (xylene) will melt it slowly.
This has to do with formulation....not any particular solution strength.
Carb cleaners are formulated or blended to keep a strong solvent in contact...at a moderate solution strength....by using other solvents like alcohol to keep evaporation rate moderated.
For instance...we use gallons of tech spec acetone at work. It will dissolve epoxy paint and ink in the blink of an eye....until that paint is heat cured. then it won't touch it.
I use plastic fillers made of PVA. When they are dry....mineral spirits and MEK won't touch them....yet acetone and alcohol will dissolve them.
I'm just syaing that we are being a little bit cavalier with our solvents with very little research. Ray |
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supaninja
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raygreenwood
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| supaninja wrote: |
I have one of those Berryman B-12 carb dip buckets....LOVE IT! I have been using now for almost 2 years, when it gets a little low I buy a bottle of B-12 and topper her off. I can't even tell you how many parts I soaked in it, plus it does wonders to pretting up gsxr throttle bodies  |
I have not used one of their dip buckets since high school. I wonder if they are still the same? Back then....they were an ugly (but potent) mix of something like regular berrymans B-12...and methylene chloride....that was a crazy electric green like anti-freeze. That stuff could take the stink off of sh*t!
It wa even known to eat some carbs made of lesser alloys..because it was a chlorinated solvent...nasty, nasty....but a bucket could last for years! Ray |
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Brent
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| supaninja wrote: |
| I have one of those Berryman B-12 carb dip buckets....LOVE IT! I have been using now for almost 2 years, when it gets a little low I buy a bottle of B-12 and topper her off. I can't even tell you how many parts I soaked in it, plus it does wonders to pretting up gsxr throttle bodies |
I have not used one of their dip buckets since high school. I wonder if they are still the same? Back then....they were an ugly (but potent) mix of something like regular berrymans B-12...and methylene chloride....that was a crazy electric green like anti-freeze. That stuff could take the stink off of sh*t!
It wa even known to eat some carbs made of lesser alloys..because it was a chlorinated solvent...nasty, nasty....but a bucket could last for years! Ray |
I have the same gallon bucket as supaninja. It will eat off your cad plating if left too long. One of my carbs is not as pretty as the other...
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[email protected]
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like no letting fi parts soak in any chemical for a long time. Clean with brushes and rags. Electrical conections brush cleaned. thanks for the info guys.
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Mike Fisher
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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That is why I use 1/4" of gasoline/brush in an oil drain pan and no soaking in gasoline or carburetor cleaner.
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56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500 |
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raygreenwood
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| That is why I use 1/4" of gasoline/brush in an oil drain pan and no soaking in gasoline or carburetor cleaner. |
You know...its hard to argue with gasoline as a solvent. It really does work well...especially modern gasoline.
Its only drawback...and I know thats why you only use 1/4" in a pan at a time....is that its vapor pressure and ability to become aerosol is so dang dangerous. Unlike the other chemicals....it is designed to vaporize and mix with air as a fuel. It really is carefully designed...otherwise and old solvent could be pout in our fuel tanks to burn (heck..many of them can!).
Its kind of what I was getting at with all of that diatribe. Cleaning solvents have really strong chemicals at their core...like MEK. Things like alochol are added to raise the vapor point and make them less readily combustible and less prone to static ignition. Other chemicals give them other characteristics.
The big ugly issue with leaving things soaking in carb cleaner and other hot solvents...uncovered....is the evaporation issue. With aluminum and magnesium, fast evaporating hot solvents can make more of a mess than they remove by putting all the oils in greases in solution. As the solvent evaporates and uncovers parts the film of grasy solvents that dry in the pores can sometimes never come out. Ray |
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Mike Fisher
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I know a motorcycle mechanic that smokes while he cleans his parts with 1/4" of gas in a drain pan.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500 |
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