Sunroof Lifters

cr@M · Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: Sunroof Lifters

Since I bought my bus about 5 years ago, the sunroof never worked. One side was slightly higher than the other in the back and the crank never did anything but strip. On top of that, the whole edge was filled with caulking Rolling Eyes

After stalking the samba for tips i finally went out and opened it. Removed the handle and gear, cut away most of the RTV, and smacked the back to drop it just enough to push back (thanks SGKent!). I was happy to see that there was virtually no rust and the plastic guide pieces are intact and still flexible. On the downside though, both lifters fell out after moving the leaf springs.

Since one of them is frozen completely and the other can still pivot, I'm assuming that that was what locked up the whole system in the first place. Along with decades of crud in all the tracks.

Here's what I'm not sure about:

1) The lifters are supposed to be attached to the cables right? Which means i need to buy new ones. I don't see where they are (were) attached and i don't understand how the lifter slides along the track while being attached to a cable. It would help if at least one was working for reference.

2) How do i remove the cables from the guide pieces? I removed all of the screws and the whole thing is loose, but the runners go allll the way to the back where i can't get to. Do i pull the entire rail system out as one piece?
_________________
1972 Deluxe named Lucidity
1973 Transporter

"He who fights with monsters must see to it that he himself does not become a monster...
when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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Collie · Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Sunroof Lifters

SGKent · Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject:

do you have a Bentley? I ask not to sell one or push you away, but to see what resources you have at hand.

The lifter blocks are part of the cable assembly. The long metal clips that hold them on have a pivot pin in them and they swing aside, releasing the blocks. Each block has a long nail like thing on it with a spring. That long metal piece which is painted and part of the roof holding it is the part I refer to that swings.

Once those are released and the front guides removed the sunroof comes straight up. You can see the whole process in Bentley with photos. Do not pry on your inner panel. It will slide to the back once the front clips are released on it and you probably know that already since you can see the lifter blocks. To pull the cables the plastic comes off - it will be very brittle regardless what you think so go slow and careful as the parts are NLA. You will need to pull the handle off inside then the cover over the gear gently then the two screws holding the gear. Then the plastic. Then you will see the cables that run inside the long rails.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench

formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.

bdamico on GF wrote

cr@M · Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject:

Yeah i have the Bentley and Haynes (though Haynes doesn't go into it much). I followed the process and removed both the headliner and metal part of the sunroof. Took everything out except the cables and really long plastic guides that go to the rear of the bus. Also was very careful with the plastic guides while cleaning since i don't want to deal with that.

I ordered new cables today. The whole system seems really simple when it works, but i can understand how it would be a real pain when everything is broken/rusted and you can't find parts.

I'm going to take a bunch of picks of how everything is when it's done. I have yet to see a thread here with photos so hopefully it will help people in the future.
_________________
1972 Deluxe named Lucidity
1973 Transporter

"He who fights with monsters must see to it that he himself does not become a monster...
when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
_________________

SGKent · Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject:

Collie · Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject:

cr@M · Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject:

SGKent · Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject:

yes 2 is aluminum on both sides

the 4 pieces up top front are plastic. 14 and 12 were plastic in early bays but are cast on the bottom piece and plastic on the top in late bays.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench

formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.

bdamico on GF wrote

jadppe · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:06 am Post subject:

Hey Collie, great site with the sunroof pics. I had mine all put together with new cables but it broke again. Seems when I was working on it before someone said all the cables come from the same manufacturer so it doesn't matter where you buy them. Is that true?

Mine is sealed up now which I hate. Maybe I'll get some more cables and give it another go. I think my aluminum rails were a bit bent in places which caused extra friction. I gotta figure out a way to bend everything straight or get new rails too which don't seem easily available.
_________________
Currently trying to fix up a 78 sunroof bus. 3rd bus in my life...2 late bay westies previously.

jadppe · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:16 am Post subject:

Also Collie, I have some pics of my sunroof...mostly the drain holes if you wanna use them. They're in my gallery[/img]
_________________
Currently trying to fix up a 78 sunroof bus. 3rd bus in my life...2 late bay westies previously.

HarryFD · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject:

I just got my Sunroof working properly.

some tips:

1-Be sure the adjustable metal guides on the roofline line up with the notch in the track when the top is almost closed.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

2-The ramps help the lifters to start raising the top.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

3-The cables then pull the lifters perpendiculatar to the track (I use my hand to help).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Collie, feel free to add these or any other of my sunroof pictures to your web page. A credit would be nice.
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1970 Sunroof Bay
1973.5 911 Targa
2006 Ford Focus
2009 MB C300

jadppe · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject:

Hey Harry, what's the little extra cable you got tied to the lifters?
_________________
Currently trying to fix up a 78 sunroof bus. 3rd bus in my life...2 late bay westies previously.

HarryFD · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject:

Collie · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys for offer, I may use a couple of them and be sure to put credit where credit is asked!
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Collie
Bay Window Sunroof Tech Article
Champagne Edition Photo Gallery

Collie · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject:

SGKent · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject:

EIS makes the repop cables. The original ones are long gone except for one set lying in someone's basement who doesn't know what they are.

Here is a HELPFUL hint. About a month after you install the new cables and use them enough that they stretch, pull the crank and gear with the sunroof partially open. With your hands move the roof forwards and backwards a few inches to work the cables and even them out after they have stretched. Then put the gear and crank back in. The roof will open evenly and smoothly thereafter as long as it is kept clean and greased. What I found is that the cables stretch uneven and this cocks the roof in the track which partially binds it. Once you even out the cables after they have stretched it is really smooth.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench

formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.

bdamico on GF wrote

jadppe · Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:42 am Post subject:

Nevermind Harry, I figured it out. In your last pic it looks like a wire is wrapped around your lifter but I looked closer and its the little strip of curved metal that comes down from the roof and under the long springy arm of the lifter.

The problem with the cables I got were the caps that go over the cable after they go through the lifter. Those came off a couple weeks after I got em. There was probably more friction in my rails than there should have been but still seems like the weakest part of the cable. Any ideas on what to cap them with. I can post a pic if you guys aren't following me. I'm assuming that's where most peoples cables break so it maybe useful to figure out an alternative. Otherwise, the cables and lifters are fine.
_________________
Currently trying to fix up a 78 sunroof bus. 3rd bus in my life...2 late bay westies previously.

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