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Cabin Insulation
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stever1000
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the lightest option as far as thermal insulation goes, and also inexpensive?
peal and seal sounds heavy, what about reflectix?
didn't see a weight/square foot anywhere.

Any comments?
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dansvans
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

refectix weighs almost nothing, but it isnt inexpensive. if you want inexpensive, then fiberglas is what you are looking for.

peel and seal is cheap but is a sound deadener, not a thermal insulator
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mywifesghia
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think reflectix is going to be your best price/weight combo. I think it is resonable for the amount you can buy in a roll and what it will cover.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... what is the best way to use reflectix? Its supposed to have a gap between it and the wall so i`m thinking either just cut out sections of the stuff and put it behind the door panels or foil tape it around the edges to seal it off but still leaving space between it and the sheetmetal.
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bringing this thread back up.

A while back I coated one of the side panels and the tailgate with yoga mat foam, logic being that it's a thermal insulator and a closed cell foam. Plus it's really cheap. Is it all in my head or is this stuff working?

You can see it in this photo. This photo also includes a part of my next question. Read on, please.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You can see where I blocked off the skylight because it was leaky and broken. What you can't see there is the roof profile. It's kind of visible in this shot:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Notice how the roof has a decent curve? See how it has a flat bit where the skylight goes? Now look back up and see how the vinyl just cuts straight across?
There is a huge gap above that vinyl. All that is up there is the fibreglass top. Now I can't help but notice that it is thin enough that light goes through it during the day. What i was thinking is no minor undertaking. Removing the vinyl and gluing matting to the inside of the roof. in theory it should cut down on heat in the summer and stop as much heat escaping in the cooler months. Plus if I can cover the foam mat somehow I'll regain a bit of space.

Is this silly, or not a totally terrible idea?
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mywifesghia
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about some sort of reflective blanket material. Or am I overthinking that it needs to be really flexible?
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mywifesghia wrote:
What about some sort of reflective blanket material. Or am I overthinking that it needs to be really flexible?


Flexibility is a good point that I never considered. you mean like those emergency thermal blanket things? They are actually pretty hard to come by these days. I have also discovered that reflectix and similar just plain doesn't exist here. Anyway from what I can understand if it works at all the effect is one way. I'd like to prevent heat getting in as well as out.
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mywifesghia
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try a photography store or if there is a place that sells films and video supplies, professionally. Many times they sell it as a rain cover and it blue on one side, reflective on the other. It's been a few years since I had to buy one.
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mywifesghia wrote:
Try a photography store or if there is a place that sells films and video supplies, professionally. Many times they sell it as a rain cover and it blue on one side, reflective on the other. It's been a few years since I had to buy one.


that sounds like the stuff that goes on under weatherboards and that sort of thing, or are you talking about something different?
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also seen it sold as a "thermal blanket" at hunting/outdoors stores.
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serious question. Isn't that stuff more or less a foil sort of stuff with some magic addition to make it not rip?
If so the problem lies with an air gap. When it's wrapped around a freezing person for example, there is an air gap between the person and the blanket, allowing reflection of heat.
this would be the same if adhered to the roof of the bay. but there would be no air gap between the roof and the foil which would cause heat to conduct through it and radiate into the cabin, which is extremely unacceptable. It can get brutally hot here for a fair part of the year and having a one way heat exchange of sorts would be terrible.

Because we are on vast plains only about 100m above sea level and pretty far south we don't get snow in the colder weather, but do get nasty winds and a lot of sub zero time in winter, so I'm looking for a decent compromise.
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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bubble foil insulation and 12V fused outlet for electric blanket
tire chains and buddy heater in ice box

Aloha
tp


Last edited by Tom Powell on Fri May 04, 2012 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That foil insulation just seems to be straight not available here under Reflectix or any other brand. About the only incarnation I have seen it in in a very long time is windshield sun shades. Nice 12V plug. I have one under the seat too but it's not as good looking.

Tom, I love how cozy and liveable that is.

Got a couple of photos of the gap between the vinyl and the roof. As an added bonus I realised I could spot some leaks that have been driving me nuts!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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I'd like to state that I didn't use a flash. The illumination is from the sun shining through the fiberglass.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RatCamper wrote:


A while back I coated one of the side panels and the tailgate with yoga mat foam, logic being that it's a thermal insulator and a closed cell foam.


I'm sure that closed cell foam like this will make a great insulator, but I would not be tempted to use it. The problem is that you have to hold it to the wall somehow. If you use glue you can get condensation between the wall and the foam and it will take forever to dry out, staying wet and either rusting or growing mold.

The only way you can use a closed cell foam product against metal is to tightly, perfectly, bond the foam to the metal. Usually that's done on luxury cars with expanding urethane which binds to the metal as tightly as paint.

Now, if you are just trying to stop solar gain, closed cell foam is a pretty good solution as long as there is some air flow between it and the metal.

My insulation is multiple layers of felt used to pad laminate flooring. Use some 3M silly string adhesive to hold it in place and it provides a high degree of insulation without holding moisture. Any vapor barrier goes on the passenger side, between the metal framing and the interior panels.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RatCamper wrote:
That foil insulation just seems to be straight not available here under Reflectix or any other brand.


I did a search on ebay.com.au (Australian eBay) using the words 'foil insulation' and got back multiple hits for products resembling Reflectix. Give it a go and maybe you will strike gold.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For both reflectance and some insulation, if you have the fiberglass roof off you could always paint the inside with silver mobile home roof paint. It has a ton of aluminum in it, plus it goes on thick and adds insulation via some small air bubbles that develop in the paint, at a microscopic level. Not a ton of insulation, but a good bit. But it won't stick upside down, the body of the paint is too heavy, so you would have to have the fiberglass off and upside down.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuna Tim wrote:
RatCamper wrote:
That foil insulation just seems to be straight not available here under Reflectix or any other brand.


I did a search on ebay.com.au (Australian eBay) using the words 'foil insulation' and got back multiple hits for products resembling Reflectix. Give it a go and maybe you will strike gold.


Just did then. About a month back there was nothing. Heaps now. Don't know whether it was lack of items for sale before or that weird quirk in eBay's search engine where it refuses to find the right thing sometimes without doing a fairly complex advanced search, which I didn't do.

Wow, 3 sq. m, $25 with free postage. Wonder if that'd be enough. Measurement time I guess.

By the way I'm not taking the top off for anything. It's still on. Pretty sure it'd be a two person job minimum.

Admittedly I still have my concerns about it working as a one way heat exchanger.

Putting that foam on the wall was a concern of mine too. I did it on a hot dry day and was especially careful to make a solid bead around it.

Air flow between the foam and the metal is really the issue, isn't it, as it would be with the foil insulation. It's one of the reasons I put the foam on the side though because many tiny bubbles of air with rubber between them should theoretically insulate better without an air gap than a layer of larger bubbles delimited with a foil.
For keeping the heat in, I'd expect the foil has an advantage because of the reflective properties.
Now I think of it there's no reason I couldn't do both.

I'm not sure if there is some confusion over the construction of the pop top. It'd be entirely possible considering that Westfalias are the norm in the U.S. whereas they are a very, very rare beast here. Mine is more or less an example of a common configuration.

It's just a straight up pop top with canvas sides. Three of those scissor lifters. one on each side and one on the back. Solid tub in front of the pop top.
Roof construction is simple being just a fibreglass shell with some vinyl stretched side to side and a couple of handles bolted through the roof in the middle flat bit where the skylight normally is.

If / when I insulate the roof, I'll be removing the vinyl from the pop top. Doesn't bother me much because I think it's ugly and well past its use by date.

Where do you get mobile home roof paint from? I've never heard of it. Not even really sure what it's used on to be honest. I mean the name should be self explanatory but I don't quite get the specifics.
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