hankook 195/14 and steering looseness

[devesvws]

am i missing something or is my front end or springs shot? i got a new set of hankook tires from BD and I checked the rear and front for any type of worn parts, and everything looks and feels fine. the tire guy set the air at 65 psi and i rode with that psi for about 70 miles, but road noise was loud and driving it was squirrely and twitching all over the road. i changed the air psi to 48 rear 45 front but still the same all over the road feeling. my thinking is the hankook tires are the worst tires i have ever had on any of my vanagons, the under load rated sears michelin weatherwise tires i have used for years might not have been a bad choice after all. kicking myself btw its a 91 carat automatic so my next move is to lower the psi even more
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THE FEW THE PROUD THE ORIGINAL VW WATERBOXER i have been looking for a 91 vanagon owners set like this> http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/3853163.jpg https://picasaweb.google.com/101290228103300323836/BostonBobFlywheelVideo#5543000332201103922

[0to60in6min]

I have those Hankook 195/14 for 4 years/40K miles with no problem at all. The big common mistake of the monkeys at tire shop is they read the max pressure on the tire and fill it up.

I put 42 Front and 52 Rear on my 89 Carat. When the road is bumpy I go to 40-F/48-R... other than that you may have bushing/tie rod problem and/or may be worn shocks too.

good luck

[Gauche1968]

I think your psi is way too high. I run 42 on the front 51 in the year, 3 psi over the listed inflation levels on the door jamb. I don't know if this has anything to do with your all over the road experience however.
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[alnvilma]

I just put 185 Hankooks on my hardtop with pressure at 36/44 and it rides and handles nice. I know Wests are are a little heavier and the stickers read higher but, wow, those pressures must make 'em squirlly and rock hard!
Do you guys put markings on the tread and actually 'see' what they're doing?

[IdahoDoug]

same rims new rims? what r they?
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Two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2013 Subaru Impreza boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V

[Phishman068]

I think the logic of getting a less squirly ride by lowering the psi seems wrong. My hankooks were always ran at 50/52psi and that bus would ride like it was on rails with very little effort needed to steer it, quiet performance, and wonderful in cross winds.
Lowering your PSI will allow for additional sidewall flex. I guess in some conditions this may be advantageous, but I can't seem to think of when/where. I've always been taught that the suspension is meant to take up bumps, cornering, steering, etc..... not the tires.

It sounds to me like you have worn out suspension components. I can't see any situation in which underrated and under inflated tires will out perform proper ones, unless components have gone sour.

I actually really love the hankook tire in the 14'' size. Sadly (partially) both of my busses are now sporting 15 and 16'' rims and thus different tires.

Just don't try the hankooks in the snow. You will be supremely dissapointed as you spin tires.

[scottf3334]

Agree

We run Hankooks around 50psi, steel rims and the van handles great. Not squirly. Check your tie rods and ball joints.

I have had bad tie rod ends make the van more susceptible to wind etc... Feel loose

Just a tiny bit of play really messes with the steering.
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84 Westy
78 Super vert
87 Westy Zetec

[summer samba]

Make sure the Wheel lugs and bolts were torqued correctly.

[Jon_slider]

> squirrely and twitching all over the road

get an alignment

I suggest 50psi front, 55psi rear

do report back how you solved the problem
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Where in the world are the The Lost Burritos?

[devesvws]

toe in ? thats what my buddy says, he thinks it should be toed in just a hair. i dont know, so now i'm down to 40 front and 43 rear and it way better. i'm of on a 900 mile trip friday.
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THE FEW THE PROUD THE ORIGINAL VW WATERBOXER i have been looking for a 91 vanagon owners set like this> http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/3853163.jpg https://picasaweb.google.com/101290228103300323836/BostonBobFlywheelVideo#5543000332201103922

[wasserbox]

Read the MFR's sticker inside the drivers door.
The 195R14 is a recommended, stock tire size.
It has recommended PSI ratings for those tires right there for you.

65 is high. On a westy, it's something like 45 front/55 rear. A Carat would probably be less.... but that's why there's a sticker. Eliminates confusion.

If you run your tires at 65PSI, you will cause premature wear. The centers will go bald before the edges. Recommended pressure is designed to be a compromise of comfort vs control, maintaining the maximum possible contact patch with the road, based on the weight and handling characteristics of your particular vehichle. If you overinflate, you are decreasing both comfort and control by lessening the contact patch and making the tires harsher and less responsive.

The last thing you really want is to make a vanagon LESS controllable.

[Jon_slider]

See here that VW used a 185R14C rated for max load 1710, max inflation 55 psi
http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/guideline.html
here is the silver sticker info
http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/Silver%20Sticker%20Info.html
it shows max inflation VW used on the 185 tire was 43 front, 53 rear
on a 185 tire per above specs, 43psi carries 1337 lbs, 53 psi carries 1648 lbs

The OP has a 195 tire rated 2070 lbs @ 65psi
to carry 1337 lbs you would use 42psi
to carry 1684 lbs you would use 52psi

notice that is exactly what 0to60in6min does
> I put 42 Front and 52 Rear on my 89 Carat.

then the OP said
> so now i'm down to 40 front and 43 rear and it way better

seems you are getting very close to a working pressure range. Congrats. I recommend you do not go below 40psi in front, and experiment with using 10psi more in the rear than the front. Also try 5 psi more in rear than front.

Since you have a Carat, not a westy, I think 5psi difference could be good. If the van gets affected by wind such that it wants to change lanes on its own. Increase the difference to 10psi, by raising the rear, do not lower the fronts below 40psi.

if you want to do some measuring.. get a tape measure and see how far your wheel centers are off the ground. You may discover that with your current inflation, the rear tires are slightly more squished than the front ones.. not that it really matters.. I just think its fun to check..

have a fantastic trip!
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Where in the world are the The Lost Burritos?

[IdahoDoug]

So I guess the rims will remain a mystery?

Old tires can develop conicity which is as it sounds - a cone shape. So they'll constantly pull slightly making a vehicle feel stable. Highly likely when tires are just rotated front to back remaining on the same side. Not a bad strategy, actually a good one, by the way. Its effect is like having a mild toe-in which creates a feeling of stability at high speeds.

So along comes a fresh set of tires that are neutral. They track perfectly straight with no pulling to one side or another. Suddenly that slight slack in the steering is not held gently against one side or the other and that feeling of stability is gone.

So, a hair of toe in would help you. I would go for a fraction of a degree - like .4. Correct inflation according to the sticker, also.

dougM
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Two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2013 Subaru Impreza boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V