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slik
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2012
Posts: 143
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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadd wrote: | Sorry about de-railing the original topic about tire wear but now that we are on the subject anyway I think its a pretty good debate.
Look at it this way; When you pull up to a stop light and you see a pimple faced kid in a beat up Honda with primer body kit and fart can exhaust rattling your windows from 4 cars back, you probably make a few snap decisions about him, right? It is kind of hard not to judge the book when the cover is screaming "LOOK AT ME"
Well this whole slammed VW thing is kind of the same. Slammed VW's are a trend. You guys roll into the show scrapping pan, grinding through the gears with with a beer tap shift knob so that everyone looks and says "damn dude, check that out!" There is no functional reason behind it. It's all about the image. What does that image say about you? Not necessarily "I'm an idiot" but lets face it you have spent lots of time and money making your car less economical, less functional and a lot less safe to drive. Hell, if a cop wanted to be a dick they could probably say that it wasn't road worthy.
Like most trends the novelty will soon wear off and we will all look back and have a good laugh at how silly it was...
...and then go out to the garage and start modifying our cars to fit into whatever the next cool trend is.
All that us "typical samba haters" are saying is, why not just save yourself the trouble
I agree that a line of bone stock VW's, restored out of a catalog with 99% fake parts and perfect base/clear paint is just BORING. But how about those nicely preserved original survivors that you see? All of the history and love that went into that car. All of the wonderful patina that proves its age. More and more I am seeing these cars slammed and bagged with big motors scrapping into a show.... Oh well to each their own I guess |
See but that's wut makes us all different. Im not a young kid but when what we used to a ricer back in the day pulls up to me now which I was just behind a loud ass one the other day I just smile. I'm not in to them not even back in the day when they were everywhere but I'm into that free spirit have fun whatever floats your boat kinda thing. I love seeing things that are different and I gotta salute those dropped funky angle tired vw guys. They're just well, different. And yeah I do think they're cool. Maybe it's because it appears you work in a garage so there's prolly a lot of technical stuff telling you that that type of thing really shouldn't be done. I mean if it were mechanically the perfect way to go auto makers would be Turning out funky wheeled cars but unless I'm wrong it's for looks. N we all know that if it's about looks, no one is going to agree 100% of the time about what looks good and what doesnt.
Here's my attitude. If I won the lottery I'd have a garage with a pristine stock pre fat chick bug. Then I'd have a rusty ol but good running stock bug....oh yeah i already do. Then I'd own a slammed funky crooked wheeled bug. N then I'd have a baja n a Manx. Ummm...then If I had some spare change I might spring for a super beetle haha. Bugs r so awesome. |
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slik
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2012
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| fuhq64 wrote: | Tire wear? Yup, to go low, unavoidable. Premature wear on components? Yup. Everyone knows that the more extreme you go, whether it be suspension, motor, or even other cosmetics, you lose practicality. Luckily there are forums like this that are full of people that have learned things the hard way so that we can either attempt another route to achieve the desired mod or to avoid it altogether
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C'mon man! How can u not love that? Love the Derp! It just makes me smile.  |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 13434
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Turd Furgusson wrote: | | Helfen wrote: |
Consider this; All you need is a few people who really don't like cars at all to go around and get their state representative wound up to make him/herself look good at what I'm doing to pass some safety inspection legislation for ALL of the car owning public to have to go to the new state run inspection station. That is what happened in many states. Here in California I believe they "the do-gooders" would love nothing better than to add more rules and regulations to the smog check program so the state can steal even more money from our pockets.
Experiencing one of these cars on the street or seeing one in a magazine is just what it takes to get one of these people with a wild hair up their gazoo to go cry to someone in government to champion their new cause and ego.
So to the car owner: It's not all about you and your rights because you may be effecting everyone around you by what, and who you attract.
D. |
So don't customize your car in fear of someone complaining about it.... 
That's some stupid ass sh!t... |
Hey turd, Helfin is dead on with what he says! It's not a matter of don't customize your car. It's a matter of not annoying or not customizing to the point that it appears to be unsafe or is an annoyance.
Unfortunately for us car folks, the people in power who write the rules are NOT car people. And it only takes one punk to annoy the wrong person and we get more legislation rammed down our throats.
Open pipes, speeding, cars that look like they have broken axles all tend to upset people who politicians depend on for votes. And the best way for a politician to secure his job is to pass more legislation that his voters agree with.
So go back and read what Helfin has to say again! And remember, it's not ment to hurt or offend you. It's a very important statement ment to protect ALL of us car guys.
It's sort of that "One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch" thing.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 1148
Location: central ca.
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks drscope,
A perfect example of the same type of thing we are talking about: Every Saturday morning where I live about 40-70 cars show up at another car guy's bakery to eat and kick tires from stock to hot rods. Sometimes we get the odd outsider that likes to do a burn out and we have to go lean on the guy so the cops don't come shut us down or worse Mary that lives in the nearby neighborhood with three kids goes to a city council meeting and complains. Sure the guy wants his free expression, but freedom has it's limits when it effects everyone else.
D. |
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Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6034
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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This is comical.....why is everybody so uptight?
Tranny raises exist for a reason. Yes, you can have your bread and eat it too.
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Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost lots of money!
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 1148
Location: central ca.
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Hotrodvw wrote: | This is comical.....why is everybody so uptight?
Tranny raises exist for a reason. Yes, you can have your bread and eat it too. |
OK I understand that part now that the wheels are at the proper attitude. So tell us how you meet the bumper height and headlamp/tail lamp height and ride height requirement?
You know the laws requiring these things are still out there, all you need is ONE annoyed cop who could care less about what the city yard has for a tow truck (a non flat bed ) that will drag your car back to the impound making all those sparks. They do a number on stock VW's bumpers too.
BTW we are not uptight, just having a friendly comical discussion.
Last edited by Helfen on Tue May 22, 2012 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6034
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I got stopped about 20 yrs ago by the CHP in So. Cal. for being too low. I have yet to deal with it up here in Oregon. I'm not slammed either...........or shall I say, blatantly low.
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'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost lots of money!
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Dubbydubdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010
Posts: 388
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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let's all agree that you will get negative camber and inside tire wear if you don't do a tranny lift. 
don't quote me on this but more accidents happen with poor driving in safe cars than normal driving in an unsafe car. Give a new 15 y/o driver a stock civic or a slammed beetle, he'll probably drive it like an idiot. I say he because the only time i've seen a girl drive reckless was a lesbian looking person, but that's a story for another day kids. |
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slik
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2012
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Helfen wrote: | | Hotrodvw wrote: | This is comical.....why is everybody so uptight?
Tranny raises exist for a reason. Yes, you can have your bread and eat it too. |
OK I understand that part now that the wheels are at the proper attitude. So tell us how you meet the bumper height and headlamp/tail lamp height and ride height requirement?
You know the laws requiring these things are still out there, all you need is ONE annoyed cop who could care less about what the city yard has for a tow truck (a non flat bed ) that will drag your car back to the impound making all those sparks. They do a number on stock VW's bumpers too.
BTW we are not uptight, just having a friendly comical discussion. |
Ok. Here's where a newbie gets his ass kicked but u mean COULDN'T care less. Since there's a debate raging I thought I'd just point that out haha. It's just been a pet peeve of mine for years. We are officially off topic lol! I just asked an innocent question. This is too funny! |
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Turd Furgusson
Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Helfen wrote: | Thanks drscope,
A perfect example of the same type of thing we are talking about: Every Saturday morning where I live about 40-70 cars show up at another car guy's bakery to eat and kick tires from stock to hot rods. Sometimes we get the odd outsider that likes to do a burn out and we have to go lean on the guy so the cops don't come shut us down or worse Mary that lives in the nearby neighborhood with three kids goes to a city council meeting and complains. Sure the guy wants his free expression, but freedom has it's limits when it effects everyone else.
D. |
Again, don't customize your car in fear of the government....Listen to The Dr. and Hellfen, kids...
Lowered, slammed and extremely customized cars have been around....forever!
If government was going to "outlaw" it it would have happened a long, long
time ago. I understand your point...it's just completely absurd.
Let's say your worest nightmare happened. They wouldn't "outaw" all beetles just ones with "broken axles"....
so you and the Dr. have nothing to worry about...again, absurd.
Yes, your tires will wear from a cambered wheels |
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jtwaller
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2012
Posts: 245
Location: HIDEAWAY, TX
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Problem is there are people who have enjoyed these cars for the last 40-60 years and believe that any variation from stock is ruining a great car. They are entitled and have certainly earned their opinion. Without them we would be working blind trying to repair them. On the other hand, the passion and involvement of these cars must grow and evolve to stay alive. The aircooled volkswagen is dead, and it is up to us to keep it alive. I don't care what you have to do to the car to make YOU happy, I just care that you continue to do it so my supply doesn't run out. I don't like to see a beetle cut up and turned into a trike, but if that's one more engine alive that inspire's AA to come out with "thick walled" 92mm cylinders, so be it! Lower it, raise it, cut it, just make sure you drive it!
Also I rotate my tires on the rear every two oil changes to help with wear.
_________________
1967 Daily Driver
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.( O \ ! / O ).
| mark tucker wrote: | | the more you stroke it the better it feals.bore it out while your there, you will like it if you do it corectly. watch out for the ones that are used and abused, they can be headaches.well all of them can be headaches. |
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_H3O_
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 34
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: |
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My last pair lasted me 7,000 miles before the tread separated from the sidewall from rubbing the body so much. Tread looked fine for the most part, some wear on the inside but overall wore fine. That was before I lowered it more!!  Now I have a long tube tranny so I will find out how long these new tires will last me!
so far put 11,000 miles since I've had it. 10,000miles since I slammed it! In 1 year! |
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mdnick
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Helfen wrote: | | Hotrodvw wrote: | This is comical.....why is everybody so uptight?
Tranny raises exist for a reason. Yes, you can have your bread and eat it too. |
OK I understand that part now that the wheels are at the proper attitude. So tell us how you meet the bumper height and headlamp/tail lamp height and ride height requirement?
You know the laws requiring these things are still out there |
In Maryland we can register cars as "Street Rod" then that type of violation (also known as an inspection violation) is void because the car is registered as a modified car. Other states have similar laws with alternate registrations as well.
I drove my car slammed (beam 3/4" off the ground and 3 clicks down in the back) for 3 years, blew 3 sets of fulcrums to hell and had to flip tires on the rim every 3000 miles. converted to IRS and put airbags on it. i still drive it low, but as soon as you get about 2"-3" off the ground the camber is significantly less than swing axle and the spring plates have elongated holes which can actually eliminate toe if you align them at a ride height (which you monitor with an air gauge).
Being low "reliably" is about money... how low can your wallet go?
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-nick-
purists seem to think everyone should conform to their standards. i seem to remember a certain historical figure that believed the same thing. yet we called him a lunatic? weird. |
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Michael Fischer
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 1609
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Helfen wrote: | | slik wrote: |
Naw. I'm not even considering it. I do think the look is cool tho but then again I've drooled over bugs of any kind since I was a kid. Gonna keep mine fairly stock. |
Do you really think this looks intelligent?? sorry cool???
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/3221093784_057edbd2f6.jpg |
What? The chrome fan shroud?
Thats about as dumb as all the arguing in here.  |
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Culito
11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006
Posts: 4964
Location: Columbia Missourah
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I can't believe I read the whole thing.
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'62 Turkis fleet
| johnnypan wrote: | | ...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole.. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 1148
Location: central ca.
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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[quote="jtwaller"]Problem is there are people who have enjoyed these cars for the last 40-60 years and believe that any variation from stock is ruining a great car.
Please don't put derscope and myself in that category. While the first part is true, I have enjoyed these cars for a great many years, but I do have a street/ Grand Touring car and am building another of the same type. Even though the two cars mentioned are for two different types of usage, they comply with everything a tech inspection includes for the track and everything the DMV requires on the street. I think that is a reasonable requirement to ask of any owner. I'm not a purest, although I have stock antique cars too.
Lets answer the question of; are these laws about ride height, bumper height etc. unreasonable? I remember a good friend who rear ended a 67 Mustang that was jacked up in the rear end/lowered in the front. My buddies 356 Porsche slid under that Ford right up to the rear axle rupturing the gas tank and thank God there was no fire. Another friend in his 64 double door type 2 was coming off the mountain on a ski trip when a truck turned out in front of him and stopped. That truck had a modified step bumper with five gallon fuel cans that ended up pushing the front of the bus six inches above the floor into the interior. When he and his girlfriend got out to run he realized he was cut off at the ankles.
So is there a good reason for regulations regarding ride height, bumper height, proper lighting? Your local may not enforce the law, but all you need is Mary with the two kids to complain to the city council and action will follow I can assure you. All it takes is a fluke of a first time. I've lived it and seen it happen.
D. |
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smitty24
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2008
Posts: 2186
Location: Salem, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Hotrodvw wrote: | | I got stopped about 20 yrs ago by the CHP in So. Cal. for being too low. I have yet to deal with it up here in Oregon. I'm not slammed either...........or shall I say, blatantly low. |
You are lucky. I am from Salem and for some reason didnt have issues for years. In 2007, I got a pulled over on I5 on the way to work--in my slammed '64 splitty. The cop was a new young sheriff and in a rather fast new Shelby Mustang. Instead of just speeding, the cop says he was going to give me a height fine, in addition to exceeding exhaust sound. I paid the nasty fines and actually raised the bus, and installed a quieter exhaust. Pulled over again. Still not high or quiet enough. Cop harassed me, even after I got another bug. Some of the younger cops nowadays actually do the measurements/sound checks now! I even had one check me and my passengers for seat belts. It may just be a matter of time before your local cops start enforcing/caring about some of the laws. In Utah, I have not been pulled yet but get a lot of attention from the local cops. On the other hand, my buddy that isnt as low gets pulled over all the time, due to the way his car looks= rat rod with stinger and a well built 1915 that is driven accordingly. |
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smitty24
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2008
Posts: 2186
Location: Salem, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Helfen has made some excellent points!
Ultimately, it IS YOUR CAR but it does effect others around you! It is selfish to not think about others and to think you will be one of the magical lucky guys that nothing bad happens to. Driving a classic VW in this day takes skill/safety all by itself. A super fast or really low one takes further skill. If I let my wife drive my current car, it would be down the road and stuck in a pole or another car in a matter of seconds.
I am one of the guys that HAS had everything bad happen! I had spun a drum's splines once, exactly the next day after I had tightened them. I was going about 45 coming home from work and literally spun sideways and almost hit a Tahoe next to me. Things happen you can't always pre-determine. I once got cut off on a rainy evening--slid right into the back of a lady in her Jetta! Lack of tire on road from negative camber didnt help. Toe was not the problem because it was an IRS. I have also broke brake lines, tore axle boots, been towed and had the truck mess my cars up, been fined, had a tire buckle and jump the rim, etc. The lower you go, there are more dangers.
What you do does effect others- it is not a "its my car and I can do what I want" mentality. Does it mean you can't lower your car even a little? Hell no! The Doc's car is even lowered a little, if my memory is correct...and purple with a white insert. Looks good. |
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Culito
11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006
Posts: 4964
Location: Columbia Missourah
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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And just how low are we allowed, Smitty?
I'm pretty low, daily driver with lots of miles logged (around 600 last weekend), no excess tire wear or squirrely handling, because I have my shit set up right. Handles way better than that damn single cab "tractor" I drive, and it's set up stock, except for those crazy non-factory-spec radial tires.
The only problems I've had is with aftermarket parts. I gotta drop the engine next because of a noisy throwout bearing...already.
Bottom line: drive smart. These aren't sports cars. As a matter of fact, didn't swingaxle bugs suffer from dangerous wheel tuck at stock height?
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Copyright 2012-apocalypse, CJ Industries, Inc.
'62 Turkis fleet
| johnnypan wrote: | | ...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole.. |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 13434
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Turd Furgusson wrote: | | Helfen wrote: | Thanks drscope,
A perfect example of the same type of thing we are talking about: Every Saturday morning where I live about 40-70 cars show up at another car guy's bakery to eat and kick tires from stock to hot rods. Sometimes we get the odd outsider that likes to do a burn out and we have to go lean on the guy so the cops don't come shut us down or worse Mary that lives in the nearby neighborhood with three kids goes to a city council meeting and complains. Sure the guy wants his free expression, but freedom has it's limits when it effects everyone else.
D. |
Again, don't customize your car in fear of the government....Listen to The Dr. and Hellfen, kids...
Lowered, slammed and extremely customized cars have been around....forever!
If government was going to "outlaw" it it would have happened a long, long
time ago. I understand your point...it's just completely absurd.
Let's say your worest nightmare happened. They wouldn't "outaw" all beetles just ones with "broken axles"....
so you and the Dr. have nothing to worry about...again, absurd.
Yes, your tires will wear from a cambered wheels |
Well Turd, you just don’t have a very good understanding of how things work.
I live in a residential neighborhood. We had a young man up the street with a really nice red Golf with all the cool stuff on it. It sounded real nice and I enjoyed seeing and hearing it go up and down the street every so often.
We also have an asshole up the street who has made it his mission in life to stick his nose into everyone else’s business. I’ve been round and round with him a few times over the last 20 years of living here.
Anyway, the Youngman in the red gold had an unfortunate event one rainy evening and failed to negotiate the turn in front of my next door neighbor’s house. He ended up in the yard where a rather large tree stopped him.
My neighbor and I went to his aide and we were working on getting him back into the street when the asshole up the road came by.
A few minutes latter the law showed up in FORCE, as well as an ambulance and a fire truck. Want to guess who called them? For an accident with no injury or property damage except to the poor Golf and a little bark scrapped off the tree.
Well at the next community meeting the asshole up the street who is also the self appointed leader of the homeowners association, proposes we install speed bumps on our street to stop the speeding cars. And he happens to have a copy of the police report from the crash of the red Golf!
We now have 3 speed bumps to climb over in order to get in and out of the neighborhood.
So the point is that it only takes one asshole to make things difficult for the rest of us. And the sooner you realize that, the better off the rest of us will be.
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