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babysnakes
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Location: West Boca Raton, Fla.
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I'd really like to hear the end result with Grundy. Insuring the '72 with Hagerty's was as painless as you could get. Adhering to their rules should not be much of a problem. But when it's time for the Westy and the truck it might be time to switch over to something better.
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'69 SC under resto
'72 deluxe daily
'78 Westy motor transplant in progress
'71 super vert
1st bus, '67 Westy in '83. Thank you '74 Pontiac Ventura.
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420GOAT wrote:
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Bleyseng
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Location: Seattle!
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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yes, I switched to Grundy cuz I can drive my Ghia and 914 under their policy.
The Westy is at Liberty Mutual so I can camp in it.
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70 Ghia Black convert-stock w/122k 1600 SP-barn find
77 SageGreen Westy Deluxe
Stock w/ 134K 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
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Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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ok, it seems that all is well with grundy as of now. i am still waiting for a reply. seems that i can use the bus no issues, have a agreed value on both. here's to hoping......
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: | | Whenever I click on the baywindow forum I feel like I'm entering a place where most people have no sense of reality |
| schell '59 wrote: | | The honor system works for boy scouts..not in real business |
| modok wrote: | | It was in the instructions back when stuff came with instructions |
| curtis4085 wrote: | | as most your information you give is crap anyway |
| bugger101 wrote: |
skills, you never win with cheap vw people |
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pozz907420
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Joined: March 24, 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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today I just insured my bus for 90 a year,7 bucks a month.Not supposed to commute with it,just recreation.State Farm
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 17503
Location: State Capitol CA (Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| pozz907420 wrote: | | today I just insured my bus for 90 a year,7 bucks a month.Not supposed to commute with it,just recreation.State Farm |
someone else got a reasonable policy from state farm that allowed them to camp. The companies allowing it are probably using the same reinsurance.
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Steve aka Merlin the Wrench
formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.
bdamico on GF wrote | Quote: | | "When I was your age I'd plan out all sorts of stuff for the future and almost none of them came true. Just wonder if it's worth trying to be a crystal ball. " |
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 13056
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| pozz907420 wrote: | | today I just insured my bus for 90 a year,7 bucks a month.Not supposed to commute with it,just recreation.State Farm |
The whole deal is what it is insured for. How much. Be aware that policies that state "the lessor of" means just that. The lessor of 1) giving you some other bus 2) the cost for repairs or 3) some stated amount. They will give you the least.
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The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.
| 73kombi wrote: | | when that red light goes on, you have to make a choice. |
| Amskeptic wrote: | I am not answering that.
Respectfully,
GoBuyABentley |
71 Superbug
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wvukidsdoc
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Joined: April 29, 2005
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: | | Called Grundy today. Willing to do a agreed value policy very few limitations, and I can use it for whatever whenever as long as it isn't 100% for daily use. I can use the single as a truck and the camper as a camper....imagine that! Waiting for more info.... |
This is of course an old discussion, but I'll state a few warnings I have before. First State Farm has two sorts of "collector" vehicle policies and all may not be present in all states. One is a true "agreed value" policy, one is actually a "stated value" policy. In MD about 5 years ago they were trying quietly to basically con people (I have several friends with many collector vehicles down there) into switching their old agreed policies into stated policies using various tactics, not limited to simply switching them with fine print on renewal, or escalating the price of the agreed value policy while offering to "put it on your regular insurance for less" as a stated value policy. In AK they do not offer an agreed value policy or I'd be using it. None of the major companies do up here. So one needs to be VERY careful with a State Farm policy (or any major chain, Nationwide flat discontinued their agreed value policies in WV when I was still down there) and get the exact policy limitations, including driving conditions clearly in writing, at least yearly.
Now, I'm with Grundy, and would be very, VERY surprised if indeed they will state in writing, or even over the phone that you can use it for camping. They were quick to blankly state it is a no-no over the phone when I added the '77 Westy to several other collector vehicles I have on my policy ('66 TR4A, '72 911, '78 Scirocco) last year. Grundy is however a bit more generous (by online rumour at least, getting anything in writing clearly can be tough) about what you can do than is Hagerty and what is included in "pleasure driving" including allowing no mileage limits, and no blank exclusion for overnight away from home trips. They even allow vehicles to be garaged in storage facilities. However you see this both ways online between Hagerty and Grundy, so who knows. Hagerty started offering an "unlimited mileage" program you pay (a lot) more for, but it still had pretty barbaric exclusions.
Basically if I'm camping in the '77 and get in a wreck, right after I'm sure everyone is OK I'm going to be tossing all the camping gear over the hillside, and have buddies at the ends of all the major roads in AK (not hard) with buses in small car clubs who I'm going to call and state "we were having a little show this weekend." With both Hagerty and Grundy (and most of the others) though most people say that they are not apt to flat out deny a claim (even a total) unless you were doing something real stupid (crash your vette doing 150mph) but will simply drop you after if you weren't playing by the rules, and likely make it hard for you to go to another company.
Leland West has a good short bit about various pitfalls for collector insurance policies at:
http://www.lelandwest.com/insurance-tips.cfm
but they of course wouldn't insure me in AK either, sigh...
John |
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
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Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: |
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The biggest issue they have is stove/propane hookups. When I said I had a vw camper, the girl said " westfalias aren't usually a problem".....we'll see......
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: | | Whenever I click on the baywindow forum I feel like I'm entering a place where most people have no sense of reality |
| schell '59 wrote: | | The honor system works for boy scouts..not in real business |
| modok wrote: | | It was in the instructions back when stuff came with instructions |
| curtis4085 wrote: | | as most your information you give is crap anyway |
| bugger101 wrote: |
skills, you never win with cheap vw people |
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wvukidsdoc
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Joined: April 29, 2005
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: | | The biggest issue they have is stove/propane hookups. When I said I had a vw camper, the girl said " westfalias aren't usually a problem".....we'll see...... |
Like I and others said, be very DAMN sure you have in writing, "you can camp overnight, away from home in the vehicle, and it is covered at agreed value."
Last year when I switched the '77, they were perfectly happy to insure it, didn't care about hookups (which mine being a standard has actually as a mod to run the propex, which I didn't mention as being a non-stock item) but "the girl" flatly stated it would not be covered if I was camping in it, even at a show, "cause we don't insure RV's." As in AK I currently could not find a regular company to insure it (AT ANY COST) beyond liability, for which most wanted $250/6 months I decided to take a reasonable chance with Grundy. But I have no illusions, and accept a potential total value loss to me. And my wife and I have great driving records, no claims in over 10 years, and about 7 current running total vehicles so the vintage stuff are hardly daily drivers.
I need to put the '69SC on this year as well, it will be interesting to see if they will let me and for what value, as it is very much a "work truck."
If you do get that paper out of Grundy stating you can camp in it, sure as hell send me a copy as well, I'll be happy to pay postage. A slew of syncro Westy drivers are going to be real interested to boot.
John |
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 13056
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| wvukidsdoc wrote: |
... State Farm has two sorts of "collector" vehicle policies and all may not be present in all states. One is a true "agreed value" policy, one is actually a "stated value" policy. In MD about 5 years ago they were trying quietly to basically con people (I have several friends with many collector vehicles down there) into switching their old agreed policies into stated policies using various tactics, not limited to simply switching them with fine print on renewal, or escalating the price of the agreed value policy while offering to "put it on your regular insurance for less" as a stated value policy. In AK they do not offer an agreed value policy or I'd be using it. None of the major companies do up here. So one needs to be VERY careful with a State Farm policy |
That's kind of what I ran into a few years ago with SF. You need to really push them with all the questions and make sure you get the answers. They said all the right stuff but when they pulled out the big thick small print books it was a different story.
Camping seems to be maybe our biggest issue. But there might be some over thinking and worries on our part. What does camping really mean? What is our definition and what is their definition?
On long road trips ( to some show somewhere) in my bug I stop at rest stops and nap or sleep sitting up and being very uncomfortable. That's not camping. I do it in the bus also and that's not camping. It's not camping to just stop somewhere whether in a rest stop, truck stop, alongside the road, in a park and probably not even in an actual campground. And it's not camping to stop somewhere and have some food. Sitting in the bug in a McDonalds parking lot, or the ice chest and food box in the bug, or using the icebox and having everything spread out on the table in the bus. At carshows lasting all day I get real tired, set up the bed, pull the curtains and take a great nap after having a nice 3 course meal. That's not camping. Doing the same thing when you arrive at a show before all the activities is the same situation. In Feb. at the Barrett-Jackson weekend we had to get there before 2AM to even get a spot. A friend really bundled up in his bug to keep warm and slept until sunrise. Another guy did it in a folding chair. I did it in my bus and had a Mr. Buddy heater, my comfortable bed but I don't think any of us were camping.
I don't see how an insurance co. can tell you where you can or can't stop. You can't continuously drive and drive without turning off the engine for some reason or another. Can they tell you the maximum time you can be stopped somewhere? 10 minutes for a nap or 6 hours waithing for a gas station to open up, or 3 days waiting for your friend to bring the part you need.
People put up awnings, side tents and I might do the rear sleeper at shows but that's not camping. And BarBQ's are common.
Now heading down a dirt road for 4 days of remote back country would be over the line but where actually is the line? reason I'm curious is my insurance agent wants a new set of updated pictures. The contents of my bus are also included in the insured. So is a picture of the whole package a problem? The whole package all set up at a camp ground?
There is a line to cross somewhere.
_________________
The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.
| 73kombi wrote: | | when that red light goes on, you have to make a choice. |
| Amskeptic wrote: | I am not answering that.
Respectfully,
GoBuyABentley |
71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 3944
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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well, i did put in the application that it would be used to camp at vw shows/events etc. they did ask if the s/c would be used as a work truck, i told them no (because, well, it won't be) but had no issue (so it seemed) if i was going to use it for what it is.
haven't heard anything as of yet. we all know how fridays work.....
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: | | Whenever I click on the baywindow forum I feel like I'm entering a place where most people have no sense of reality |
| schell '59 wrote: | | The honor system works for boy scouts..not in real business |
| modok wrote: | | It was in the instructions back when stuff came with instructions |
| curtis4085 wrote: | | as most your information you give is crap anyway |
| bugger101 wrote: |
skills, you never win with cheap vw people |
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 3944
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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in the spirit of keeping things up to date, i got a email from the underwriter today. as luck would have it, i got the old "out of office" reply when i emailed him for a copy of the restrictions, and wanted to make sure:
1) it was a agreed value policy
2) i can camp in it (which, is CLEARLY written on the application i faxed to them)
3) a list of restrictions
so, they are willing to take my money, but are they going to let me drive them, or just look at them 
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: | | Whenever I click on the baywindow forum I feel like I'm entering a place where most people have no sense of reality |
| schell '59 wrote: | | The honor system works for boy scouts..not in real business |
| modok wrote: | | It was in the instructions back when stuff came with instructions |
| curtis4085 wrote: | | as most your information you give is crap anyway |
| bugger101 wrote: |
skills, you never win with cheap vw people |
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jhicken 
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Joined: October 24, 2003
Posts: 7345
Location: Flagtown, NJ
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Another resource is Chubb Collector Car Insurance.
http://www.chubbcollectorcar.com
Chubb used to be the exclusive underwriter for Grundy but they ended that relationship in 2008 and decided to start to write their own policies. They have some pretty liberal restrictions including unlimited mileage. Their pricing is on par with Hagerty/Grundy/American Collectors etc. if not better. I got three cars insured through them as well as my home. I've only had one claim [with the home] and it was handled flawlessly. I started receiving checks within days, it couldn't be better. They are top notch, speak with anyone who deals with insurance and Chubb will come out on top. One thing I like about Chubb over Grundy or Hagerty, they are an underwriter, Grundy and Hagerty are Brokers. It may not make any difference but personally I like the fact that the folks I deal with are the same who are making the decisions.
I just added my '79 and there was no question whether it was a Westy or not. I'll make a call tomorrow to see if there are any "camping" stipulations. I don't believe there will be any but I'll check to be sure.
-jeffrey
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 3944
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| jhicken wrote: | Another resource is Chubb Collector Car Insurance.
http://www.chubbcollectorcar.com
I just added my '79 and there was no question whether it was a Westy or not. I'll make a call tomorrow to see if there are any "camping" stipulations. I don't believe there will be any but I'll check to be sure.
-jeffrey |
Same here. They got photos of the entire bus, pop top up, sink...the works. If this falls thru ill try chubb.....
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: | | Whenever I click on the baywindow forum I feel like I'm entering a place where most people have no sense of reality |
| schell '59 wrote: | | The honor system works for boy scouts..not in real business |
| modok wrote: | | It was in the instructions back when stuff came with instructions |
| curtis4085 wrote: | | as most your information you give is crap anyway |
| bugger101 wrote: |
skills, you never win with cheap vw people |
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jhicken
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Joined: October 24, 2003
Posts: 7345
Location: Flagtown, NJ
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:18 am Post subject: |
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I called Chubb Collector Car and had a long talk with them regarding this issue with Westfalia campers. Although they >do not< nave a no camping provision written into their policies, if you purchased the vehicle with the primary objective to use it as a camper, then they would not insure it as a collector vehicle. However if you have purchased the vehicle to restore it and would "occasionally" use it to camp in [say at events or vintage shows], it wouldn't be an issue. Chubb stated that their policies are broadly written as it is their belief that owners of collector vehicles take better care and are less likely to damage their vehicles. They do not write their policies to "turn down claims" but to protect their policy holders in the best way possible.
Although Chubb will insure any collector vehicles, their primary focus and the base of their business are high end collections. They may not have a strong presence at your local GoodGuys event but you'll see them as top sponsors at Pebble beach, Amelia Island and other top Concours d' Elegance events across the country. They know their stuff. No mileage restrictions and although they do not require to use any special repair facility, they'll help locate top shops in your area to facilitate your repairs.
Bottom line, they are worth exploring when researching collector car policies.
-jeffrey
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Vintage Volkswagen Club of America, New Jersey Chapter |
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 3944
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Still no news from grundy. I will try to call them today. This is getting out of hand....
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: | | Whenever I click on the baywindow forum I feel like I'm entering a place where most people have no sense of reality |
| schell '59 wrote: | | The honor system works for boy scouts..not in real business |
| modok wrote: | | It was in the instructions back when stuff came with instructions |
| curtis4085 wrote: | | as most your information you give is crap anyway |
| bugger101 wrote: |
skills, you never win with cheap vw people |
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 13056
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| jhicken wrote: | I called Chubb Collector Car and had a long talk with them regarding this issue with Westfalia campers. Although they >do not< nave a no camping provision written into their policies, if you purchased the vehicle with the primary objective to use it as a camper, then they would not insure it as a collector vehicle. However if you have purchased the vehicle to restore it and would "occasionally" use it to camp in [say at events or vintage shows], it wouldn't be an issue. Chubb stated that their policies are broadly written as it is their belief that owners of collector vehicles take better care and are less likely to damage their vehicles. They do not write their policies to "turn down claims" but to protect their policy holders in the best way possible.
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That's good, very reasonable, and the way it should be for that type of insurance. From what I've determined about Hagarty and some of the others that's their basic goal and how they treat it.
The real deal for them and for us is basically determining what type of bus we have and what is our purpose and intent of owning and insuring it.
If it's a so so bus and our primary use is for what a bus was intended for (transportation/utility/camping/low budget/etc. and we're just looking for a good cheap deal on insurance then that's one situation.
If it's a restored or high quality vehicle, camper configuration or not, that's owned, maintained, treated as a collector item, and shown as a collector item that's a whole different type of ownership. People like Curtis, Ashley, SG, Westfabulous, KMMcDonald, and others obviously own and care for theirs with a very high regard for it as a valuable classic and collectable. Camper or not and whether they ever occasionally use it as a camper or not doesn't matter since that's obviously not the primary reason they own it.
We had that funny thread "show pictures of your freshly washed bus". That was cool but collectable classics (cars, coins, boats, artwork, etc.) are alway expected to be well kept and maintained. The type of care that gets them fully detailed with tooth brushes and Q-Tips is more of the norm whether high dollar paint or original patina. That sure doesn't put them in a trailer queen catagory but it's far from an average daily driver.
I think that's what the Collector/Classic insurers are concerned about.
_________________
The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.
| 73kombi wrote: | | when that red light goes on, you have to make a choice. |
| Amskeptic wrote: | I am not answering that.
Respectfully,
GoBuyABentley |
71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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jhicken
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Joined: October 24, 2003
Posts: 7345
Location: Flagtown, NJ
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I figure this is a issue that is completely in our hands.
If we choose a vintage westy to restore, maintain and camp in occasionally when we attend vintage events, then we are in line with what the underwriters have in mind, but if we choose a bus to use primarily as transportation/camping/utility and try to work the system by getting collector car insurance to save a few bucks, then we are abusing this benefit and we put everyone in jeopardy.
I feel fortunate that the three vintage cars I have are properly insured and don't break the bank and I hope this benefit doesn't go away.
Now if I could only get a break on garage space!
-jeffrey
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Vintage Volkswagen Club of America, New Jersey Chapter |
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 3944
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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looks like grundy wins for me  here is a email i sent to them:
| email to grundy's underwriter wrote: |
hi paul!
thanks for the speedy response! i do have a couple questions
1) can i get a copy of the limited use rules? i have a pretty good idea of what they are, just want to cross my T's and dot my I's
2) if i go to a club show/event, am i able to use my bus to sleep in? seeing that it is a camper seems that no one wants to insure me. i have no stove/propane provisions in the bus
3) this policy is for an agreed value, correct? it is NOT a stated value policy, is it?
i think that covers my questions for now. i do appreciate all the work you have put into this for me
thanks again
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his response was:
| email from grundy's underwriter wrote: |
I’ve attached a sample form for the limited usage guidelines. Note, the form attached is for New York, but they all basically say the same thing.
Not supposed to, but nothing specifically deletes that. I already factored that in to my underwriting decision. If you’re just doing it at shows/on occasion, then I have no problem with it.
It is an agreed value.
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seeing that i am not a weekend camper i think the policy will work for me just fine.
it is an agreed value policy and for the single and the bus it was about 475 a year or 39 bucks a month. i pay more for my cell phone than that.
after seeing all the photo's there isn't a question that it is a camper. i am totally excited!
_________________
| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: | | Whenever I click on the baywindow forum I feel like I'm entering a place where most people have no sense of reality |
| schell '59 wrote: | | The honor system works for boy scouts..not in real business |
| modok wrote: | | It was in the instructions back when stuff came with instructions |
| curtis4085 wrote: | | as most your information you give is crap anyway |
| bugger101 wrote: |
skills, you never win with cheap vw people |
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babysnakes
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Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 3774
Location: West Boca Raton, Fla.
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Skills. that's great. Did they mention anything if you DID have a stove and tank? If I missed a previous post, My bad.
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'69 SC under resto
'72 deluxe daily
'78 Westy motor transplant in progress
'71 super vert
1st bus, '67 Westy in '83. Thank you '74 Pontiac Ventura.
Luftwagens
420GOAT wrote:
..dont ever ever ever ever EVER, compare any bus forum to a bug forum... |
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