Body removed from pan...finally

[Murdlem]

I have a 72 Ghia vert that has been sitting in my garage for almost 5 years just waiting for me to get around to it. Spent the last 2 years doing a major remodel of my house, and before that I was working on my 69 Fasty.

Well, last weekend, I finally removed the body from the pan on my donor 70 Ghia. I bought the 70 for the new pan on it.

I was glad to have a practice attempt on removing the body on a vehicle that I am not too concerned about. I learned a few things, and will be much better prepared to pull the body from the pan on the Vert. I have owned many VW's over the years, but this is my first actual body/pan removal.

Pan is in great shape, just a little surface rust from sitting for a few years. Going to clean up the pan a bit, add some welds to the seat brackets since there are only a few spot welds holding them in now.

The motor is strong, but not too sure about the tranny, so I am planning on taking it to my tranny guy and having him give it a once through, maybe put in new seals, etc.

I hope to be seperating the body from the pan on the vert within a couple of weeks. I will try and post some pictures.

Fortunately, I have a spare 2+ car garage that I get to use for this project so I have plenty of space.
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Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[Murdlem]

If you look in my gallery shots, you will see the Blue 70 that I have split body and pan on as well as the 72 Vert that is my current project. The other two Ghia's were sold as well as the 69 Fasty. Down to two VW's, the fewest I have had on hand in awhile, and soon to be only one.
_________________
Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[Murdlem]

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Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[das skiver]

Cool - Thanks for including us.
Keep posting those pics.

[70 140]

Nice project. That chassis from the 70 looks really good. Were the pans replaced in the past?

[Murdlem]

Yes, the pans had been replaced. The reason I bought the 70 was for the pans. When you include the fact that it was a strong runner, had Fuchs and so forth, it worked out well for me.

The pictures make the 70 look pretty nice, but it has a lot of Bondo and rust. Not as much as I have seen in some of the nightmare projects that people undertake on this website, but a lot.
_________________
Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[Teeroy]

What are you going to do about the mismatched VINs?
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Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[Murdlem]

Well, I have the title for both. When I am done, was going to go to the DMV and let them decide which would be the official VIN and go from there.

Anybody else from Washington have experience with that?
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Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[c21darrel]

From what i have read, the vin from the pan is the vin they normally use.

[70 140]

I would put the VIN from the 72 on the 70 pan, so the pan and body match.

[Murdlem]

A lot easier to put the 70 vin on the 72 body. Vin plate is attached to the Dash pad and up front with rivets.
_________________
Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[Teeroy]

70 VIN is coupe, 72 VIN is vert, the second number is different. You have both titles so you won't have a problem. WA usually uses the pan number (and makes note of the other VIN), but may assign you a WA VIN number like they do on a Special Construction (kit car ect) or some salvage cars (rebuilt total, theft recovery).
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[70 140]

[Bones 53]

Shouldn't you be very careful? Isn't tampering with VIN numbers a bit of a crime?

[Teeroy]

If both VIN's are left alone and both titles are taken in, there will not be a problem. I was just curious what he had planned (he has it covered) to do about the VIN/title issue. The way its being done, no one down the line should have any title issues (if it is ever resold), but many times pan swap are done and the paper work is all screwed up or non existent. I would rather repair an original pan than go through the hassles of a pan swap.
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[Murdlem]

I've been working on my Ghia off and on and have some new photos to share. The donor pan from the 70 is looking real good. Still need to POR 15 it, as well as go through the brakes and such.



For door supports, I welded some large washers to the end of four angle iron pieces, about two and a half feet in length, inserted the door hinge and latch bolts through the washers, and then bolted the angle iron lengths together. I also put a nice thick rubber gasket between the washer and the door frame to protect the door frame from damage.






A prior owner for the 72 vert, had welded sheet metal in to repair the pan at some time in the past. Additionally, they had welded sheet metal between body and pan from the end of the drivers side front firewall all thew way back and around to the passengers side door. I had to sawzall and grind away on the metal in order to be able to remove the body from the pan. Here is a shot before the sawzall....

Behind the drivers seat



Behind the passenger seat



Here is a shot after the body removal, you can see where I had to cut with the sawzall to remove the body from the pan



The drivers side rocker is shot. Actually, outer rocker is good, it must have been replaced at some point, but inner rocker is almost all rusted out.



Passenger side rocker looks pretty good, but I have not dug too deep there yet.



It was a lot of work yesterday, but was nice to finally get pan and body seperated. Crusty old pan is moved aside. Now, I have lots of space to work on the body and pan.







When I next have time to spend out in the garage, I'm going to spend a couple of hours just organizing. Then I will move onto grinding, wire wheeling and such to just see exactly what needs replacing. Then I will do the same to the 70 and see what donor parts I have in good enough shape to use. Hopefully I don't have to buy too many panels.
_________________
Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[Murdlem]

Well, I have been spending a lot of time on the vert the last couple of weeks. Prior to last week, I had never welded before, so I had a bit of a learning curve. I wish I had a few more "in progress photos, but I just didn't take them.

I am grateful to have a parts/donor car. It came in handy. I stole a large section from just in front of the left heater channel, across the front firewall, and all the way to the right heater channel. It seemed best to weld it in one whole piece.



Also, a few skin grafts were needed...




I welded in a 3x2 piece of tubular steel to replace the rotted out drivers side heater channel. Remember, my goal here is NOT to create a full resto show car, but salvage my investment in this "rust free" car I bought from a fellow samba member . The tubular steel cost me $38. Here is a shot of the new heater channel/rocker after completion.

For the captured nuts, I have a long piece of flat steel about 1.5 inches wide, and the length of the heater channel. Holes were drilled in the correct spot and then nuts welded on top of the holes. Corresponding holes were drilled in the tubular steel. In the photo, the body to pan bolts are installed to secure the flat steel with captured nuts. All the bolts will be removed except for two long studs which will allow me to guide them into place when mating the body and pan. Then the body to pan bolts and washers will be re-installed.



Here is a few finished shots of the new front lower section. After completing the welding, and making sure that all welding was complete, I finished the interior by priming the metal and then smoothed out some of my welding imperfections with some fiberglass to smooth things out.








In the wheel wells, after welding and grinding, I prepped and painted with POR-15 and then used some rubberized undercoating.





I also spent several hours working on the front suspension. I had never sone more to the front suspension than replace shocks and steering dampeners. Today, new ball joints and tie rod ends.





Plans for tomorrow......body back on the pan, then finish prepping for a repaint.

I have about 6 weeks to finish both my 72 vert and my son's 70 Coupe.
_________________
Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[Volfandt]

Great work. I'm hopeing to expand my limited expertice into the body repair realm and threads such as yours are helping me along, via osmosis or something similar

I really like the profile of the red vert in the 1st pic before you lifted the body. I especially like those wheels & tires. Not so much the particular makes but rather the size & style of them. They really seem to put alot of meat on the pavement and still fit in very well within the Ghia's profile while still maintaining a semblence of usable ground clearance.
A few questions.
1) what size are the wheels & tires? Techical jargon excepted
2) Are the spindles dropped?
3) Is the beam narrowed? If so how much?
4) what if any mods were needed to bolt those wheels & tires up to that vert?
My limited experience cannot assertain these answers hense my rather newbie like questions.
Course technically I am a ACVW newbie so perhaps I'll get a pass
Thanks
Dave
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1972 Karmann Ghia, the Dragon slayer....
1949 Chevrolet 3100 1/2 ton pkup.
1966 Wheel Horse 856 (gear)
1966 Wheel Horse 876 (hydro)

[Murdlem]

The stance is a bit off, because there is no motor in back. It is riding a bit high. As for the front, not sure if anything was done. PO may have removed torsion bar or two, or it could be the tires, 145 x 15's. No dropped spindles or adjustable beam. Back tires are stock 165 x 15's and the wheels are common Empi 8 spokes.

Here is a photo from a few years back.



With the new pan, it will have a very different stance. Adjustable beam in front and lowered in the back, riding on 14" Fuchs.








_________________
Eric Meldrum
70 Ghia Coupe
72 Ghia Convertible

[Volfandt]

OK, now i know what was throwing me off, I thought the frame in pic #2 with the Fuchs belonged to the red vert when actually it belonged to the blue one.
My eyes played a trick on me it seems, must have looked past the wheels
But in any case, thanks, you answered my question.

I currently have 165's on 8 spoke EMPI's and I like them OK. They handle fine but would like to go to a wider shorter tire, similar to whats on the blue coupe. Since mine is primarily a road car, I don't know if I want to loose anymore ground clearance tho.
Pardon my temporary hijack
Thanks
Dave
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia, the Dragon slayer....
1949 Chevrolet 3100 1/2 ton pkup.
1966 Wheel Horse 856 (gear)
1966 Wheel Horse 876 (hydro)