Idle issue NEW**

[durfeec]

6/30
I figured id keep this all in one thread. I have developed another idle issue. It will start fine. Hot or cold. Idle fine then. My problem is now when im coming to a stop or slowing down i press the clutch in and it just doesnt seem to catch it. it just dies. not super fast or rough. it just doesnt seem to "catch" itself to idle.

I do have the idle jet screwed out that quarter turn to make it idle and i have switched back to the 55 idle jet. i have retuned the carb per rob&daves site. seems to be the recommended way to tune. i have always followed it.

When the idle is falling if i hit the gas it will catch itself before it dies. Im going to measure the float level tomorrow. 19.5 mm correct? no vacuum leaks that i can find. I tried searching but honestly was unsure of what to use for keywords? everything that "idle" brings up has to do with it not idling at all but i dont have that problem.

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1600 dual port
34 pict 3 carb
034 SVDA distributor.

I took my engine apart to paint the tins black and clean everything back up. That is all I did to the engine since I drove it last. When I drove it 2 weeks ago it ran fine and I didnt have a single problem.

Now it will idle fine when the choke is on but when the choke hits fully open it is just like i shut the key off. It doesnt stutter to try to stay idling. Just like I lost all power to the engine and it no longer has spark. Literally just like I shut the key off.

I thought maybe while it was out of the bus some dirt got in the carb. I cleaned it twice today. Compressed air and an entire can of carb cleaner. Every jet. Every passage way. Even made sure that ball bearing behind the jet was cleaned extra good. I reset the screws to 3 turns out each ready to re-tune the carb. Double and triple checked the timing. 28 degrees full advance no vacuum. Vacuum plugged at carb.

The intake boots are a month old. Had them off and looked at them when I painted and they are good. Intake gaskets are still good. They are not the metal ones. No vacuum leaks. All the other ports have rubber plugs on them that are good. I checked the idle cutoff. It clicks just like it should when i hit it with the hot wire. To make sure that wasnt the problem i cut the nipple off the end on a junk one I had.

I thought maybe it was the needle valve so I changed that with another I had that wasnt sticky. Still the same thing. I have 1 copper spacer between the carb and the needle valve. I had 2 before but took one out thinking that was my problem. However I drove the bus with 2 spacers since, I dont know, December. Its been all winter.

When the motor was out, I re-adjusted the valves.. I've also replaced the coil 2 days ago because mine was one without an internal regulator and it finally fried itself so it stopped working. I have the correct one now.

What confuses me, is that warm or cold, it will start right up. It will drive and idle on choke but as soon as that choke goes fully open its done. I only have my choke set up on the very last step before it is fully open and thats all it needs to idle. The idle is high like its suppose to be on the choke.

The ONLY change I made while I painted the tins was I mounted the coil behind the fan shroud to hide it and made a coil wire from the distributor out of a good plug wire. And I extended the condenser wire. Every wire that I shorted/extended to tuck the coil and harness, I soldered the connector and where the wires connect. Then heat shrunk them. Would extending the condenser wire change anything?

RECAP/SHORT SUMMARY

stock 1600 dual port
34-pict-3 carb, adjustment screws out 3 turns
Bosch 034 distributor, timed 28* full advance
Runs on choke. Stalls on no choke.
Cleaned carb, twice.
Adjusted valves.
Checked timing.
New coil.
Check point gap.

Tomorrow I'm gonna put an old 009 on to see if the distributor is the problem. I'm not sure what else to do...

[don.ville]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56411
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67 Standard 11 window How I Keep My Bus Alive
01 Mexican Beetle Hello Kitty Rescue (SOLD)

[BarryL]

If you lightly pump the gas pedal when the choke warms up will it still run?

[durfeec]

don.ville, ill try backing the idle pilot jet out a little bit like that thread says. Im not sure that is the problem though because I have been driving for months with the idle jet normal and the idle has been fine.

BarryL, yeah i can keep it running fine with just a little bit of gas.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[quartermilecamel]

Idle shut off solenoid? oh, scratch that..idle soleniod checked. No, extending the wire wouldnt cause it not to run....unless the connections are somehow failing. Did you use automotive or regulare electrical solder or electronic solder? A cold solder joint might cause this.
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Looking for the U shaped swing arm for sliding door split. Left hand drive. Baywindow arms are 1/2 inch longer.

[BarryL]

[durfeec]

Well the other day when i cleaned the carb i blew out with the air compressor and carb cleaner multiple times every hole in the carb. Im not exactly sure why but when i turned my idle jet out that 1/4 turn like in the post from don.ville it worked. Doesnt make sense to me because nothing changed from when I was driving it before other than the color of the tins.

Either way I also found a little larger idle jet in one of the old carbs I had. I went from a 955 to a 960. Think that is ok? Right now its rich. Im guessing that is from the 1/4 turn out in the idle jet. Before it was lean. I have been slowly tuning it and driving it. Since I turned the idle jet out, will I have to do anything different with the small screw while tuning?
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[quartermilecamel]

Idle jets are in the 40 to 65 range. You say its running rich because, of black smoke? Plugs are black? Id go back down to the 55 idle jet and try the turning it to find the sweet spot again. Yes you should readjust the small idle mixture screw again once you get the idle jet sorted out. Turning the idle jet till it runs best doesnt require driving it. Just turn it till it runs best then leave it if its tight enough not to fall out. If its loose then loctite it in by putting a bit of loctite on the threads of the jet. Then adjust your small screw idle mixture. Dont adjust the screw on the throttle arm that hits the choke cam.
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Looking for the U shaped swing arm for sliding door split. Left hand drive. Baywindow arms are 1/2 inch longer.

[durfeec]

i locktited the other jet in. lol. ill switch it back out. it was roughly a 1/4 turn and it seemed to idle the best. i should say that i think its rich because of how it smells. ill put a load on it and shut it off to check the plugs though.

will the small screw still be in the standard 2 1/2-3 turns out area when tuning or will it be out more because of the idle jet being turned out? and does anyone know the stock 34 pict 3 jet sizes for a bus? i think i remember reading they were different for a bus than a beetle. or does that go off the distributor you use?
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[motofly196]

Stock 34pict3
main 127.5
idle 55
air correction 140 or 170z

This could be different from delivery port (higher elevation, smog laws/year) and from up-teen mechanics fiddling with tuning over the years.

These guys do the best write up for tuning a 34pict3 http://www.vw-resource.com/tune-up.html#idle
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I'm looking to buy a Light Grey decklid and
Pearl White low hinge cargo doors (no recess)

[quartermilecamel]

The idle jet loosen just fixes the fubar situation that carb has, which means if you can unscrew it a bit from tight and it runs better, that means its good and probably operating as it should. Now you should be able to adjust your mixture screw.
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Looking for the U shaped swing arm for sliding door split. Left hand drive. Baywindow arms are 1/2 inch longer.

[quartermilecamel]

carb number at base of carb can tell you or allow you to cross refference which dizzy to use. Oh yeah and as noted in a post I dont remember where, get your jets/adjust/swap ect then drive it for a day so you can get a good burn on the plugs so the color of them will reflect your current tune/jetting. Or if your rich, buy 8 or more sets of plugs and tune away
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Looking for the U shaped swing arm for sliding door split. Left hand drive. Baywindow arms are 1/2 inch longer.

[durfeec]

Thanks for all the help guys. Appreciate it. Off to fiddle with the tune of the bus.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[durfeec]

new problem posted in original post.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[Thomas Pedigo]

Too much tinkering with screws that are not intended to dial-in idle on your 34/3.

The air bypass screw (left and large),adjusts the idle only.
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Defying conventional wisdom since 1970

[durfeec]

so my bus has been super rich since all of this started. I switched carbs to another 34 pict 3 thinking that the idle jet having to be screwed out that 1/4 turn was messing everything up. i was wrong. i had to turn the idle jet out 1/4 turn on my carb i just put on. Im thinking that is just a band-aid to my larger problem. what that problem is, I have no idea.

All of this started when i painted my engine tins black. I did nothing to the carb while the motor was out. It ran fine prior to all of this. Im thinking that maybe im getting too much fuel pressure? If i hold the gas just a little bit, just enough to bump the rpms to like 1500 black smoke will come outta the exhaust. it seems to be flooding itself or loading up.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[galexander]

Too much fuel pressure could very well be the cause.
One of the first things I check on any 'rough' running engine is the fuel pressure, should be around 2-3, no more.
I had a similar deal with stalling after warm up a few years ago.

I ended up completley changing carbs, but I think you already did that.
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enjoy the journey,
Gary

[durfeec]

yeah i changed carbs and still had to turn the idle jet out 1/4 turn. on the carb i was running, i ran it since december or somewhere around then with the idle jet all the way in without a single problem. that is why i dont think its a carb problem. and what are the chances both carbs have the exact same problem? im thinking its a fuel pump problem.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[durfeec]

i bought a new fuel pump. measured the rod to about 4.5-5 mm at its highest point and put the pump on. i also changed one of my heads because i had the typical crack between the valves. i thought with a combination of that all would be good. no luck.

I still have to have the idle jet out 1/4 turn to get it to run. I think i lost a plug. gonna clean them because they are brand new.

here is another problem i have found. my vacuum on the distributor isnt strong enough to pull my advance on the 034. i can suck on it and it will work fine but it doesn't seem to be moving while running. i hooked up the timing light up and with the vacuum hooked up it only fully advanced to 30*. plugged the vacuum at the carb, left open in the distributor and it advanced to 28* (where i have it timed).

im thinking since the advance is for a light load i am not getting the proper timing when i barely give it throttle? when i checked the plugs while it was running rich before my plugs were a good chocolate brown even with the idle jet turned out 1/4 turn. however my tail pipe was black and i could still smell it rich under very little throttle. Im pretty much lost here.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[durfeec]

maybe the distributor is dirty on the inside and making it too hard to advance? im gonna take it apart and clean it and re-oil it up.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper