Battery wire inversion

[sebbie007]

1970 VW Karmann Ghia, 1600 cc:

I mistakenly plugged the battery wires in reverse (positive to negative and vice-versa) and tried one start. It buzzed on key turn and I immediately changed them over correctly.

Now, I get nothing. I get the two positive readings running to voltage regulator. The battery is fine and completely charged.

What do I do?

rc

[ovghiaguy]

at some point you may have to re=polarize the generator, I don't know. Others will chime in on that. Check all your fuses. check what works and what doesn't. I would start at B+ terminal on voltage regulator and follow up to front . The technical section at top of page has wiring diagram for your year. If you get stuck people will help you through.

[sebbie007]

Thank you for writing ovghiaguy...

Is there a chance that the regulator was taken out?

[ovghiaguy]

I don't know if regulator would be affected or not. I would still be concerned with the rest of electrical first. Does headlight relay work? Does the flasher relay work? Did any wires smoke? Guages work? That sort of thing. Look closely at wiring in trunk for evidence of damage.What happens with ign. switch in run position? Use this link and go to electrical http://www.type-14.com/

[sebbie007]

OV,

Great tracking.

Before this all happened, the flasher relay needed to be pulled out to activate headlights. Obviously, there was a cross up. I didn't give it much thought, estatic as i was to have the car running. And it was, it was running as good as it ever had. Then, as it got dark one evening and i was in it, I turned on both buttons. About thirty minutes into the ride, a stream of smoke came from the flasher and it turned off, as didi the headlights. I made it home by the skin of my teeth and parked the car for the night.

The next morning, the car cranked but did not turn over. After only a few attempts to start, the battery gave out. And that OV, is where you find me now on here. The battery was fully charged. The rest you know.

I'll gladly start at the light issues. I simply do not know where to start and I am committed to working this on my own.

rc

[sebbie007]

OV,

I see the relay location for the flasher (J2) on the schematic. Where is that in the vehicle? I cannot find the headlight relay. Do you mean the light switch?

I'll check both.

[ovghiaguy]

[sebbie007]

A test-light gets no reading from any of the inputs or wires at the relays (both). In fact, I get no positive readings except for the one wire from battery to voltage regulator. The out from there carries positive current to coil and out from there.

Turning ignition switch gets only the pressure and return to off. Incidentally, the testing above was done with switch turned on and off.

There are no visible signs of incendiary or hot wire damage.

I am off to check current in side of fuses.

[sebbie007]

Two end fuses read positive mostly. With switch turned to on position, current on those cuts out.

Two times, a few fuses on opposite side showed current and on attempt to crank, a "click" was heard from trunk and first sign of engine turn happened. Not able to reproduce.

Current found on wires (reds) from two end fuses that go to relays.

Does this sound like anything?

[ovghiaguy]

first you need to delvelope a common language so others can help also. that language will be fuse number, wire color, and circuit number. Being a 70 you should have 10 fuses in the fuse block. Sitting in drivers seat the closest fuse to steering wheel is #1 and farthest from steering wheel is #10. Black wires at 1 and 2 fuses are ignition circuit. Red wire at top of #9 is +12v from B+ on voltage.( it also joins with light switch upon coming into trunk area) With key off 1 and 2 fuse positions should have no power. With key in run position all black wires (top and bottom positions) should have power. NOTE! ignition circuit is not fuse protected.Test for power key on and off again. In the engine compartment if you motor has 1 barrel carb there will be a fuel shutoff solenoid on carb with ablack wire on it going to coil positive. This is part of ignition circuit also. It should click when power first turned on. think of the wiring as a collection of circuits and take the circuits one at a time. Use the link given as a guide, but use wiring diagram as the map. Hope not too windy

[sebbie007]

In fuse box, with key turned to on - 1 dead, 2 consistently reads hot. Key off gets 9 and 10 hot.

At hood, with keys turned on, it appears I polarized generator correctly (there were sparks off B on four or rive touches from positive on coil). So, positive read with key on from coil. Also polarized regulator (from D there) in the same way. Just after this, crank attempt got a "click."

Readings at hood are screwy. In the process of second paragraph, regulator read dead on B several times. The wire going in B (from battery) reads positive when unplugged every time. Coil readings also inconsistent, whether key is turned on or off.

How do I know if light relay is working? The reds into flasher read hot.

[ovghiaguy]

based on what you said it's time to be careful. I would only have battery positive connected during testing and be watchful during that time. Use the link provided or tech section here on Samba and pull up wiring diagram of 70-71 ghia. See the fuse block. Fuse #1 at bottom and#10 at top. The layout is representative of arrangement under hood. Wires carrying power to fuses (circuits) enter on right and exit fuses going to circuits (compoments) on left. Are you saying that 9 and 10 on right side of fuse block are dead with key on? At some point you are going to have to straighten out the issue of having flashers on to get headlights to work. Maybe sooner than later. B+ terminal on voltage regulator should always have power when battery connected with no inconsistantsies.

[sebbie007]

That's right OV...9 and 10 dead on key to "on."

I agree with you, I mean to address cross-up of headlights and flashers first.

It is my guess that the regulator was in some way damaged at some point. It appears that something is being tripped and that may point to the regulator was the point of the problem.

Next, I will be following the diagram and going line by line to headlight and flasher.

[ovghiaguy]

hope you have a volt-ohm meter. at some point you will need to test continuity and not just voltage. I would assume your battery is in eng. compartment. y/n ? From battery positive should be a larger red wire going to v. regulator to a double connector. A second red wire of same size connects next to it and goes to loom exiting eng. compartment going forward to front of car. This is the power feed for car. If both wires are solid red we're on same page. If the one going forward is red/white stripe it gets more complicated. Here the reality differs from the diagram. Under the hood by inner fender the red wire leaves wiring loom and connects to light switch. There are 3 connections on same numbered connection. 1 red goes from lightswitch to the loom going to ign. switch and turnsignal. the remaining red goes to fuse#9 and bridges to #10. This might be part of the lightswitch problem to get sorted.

[Volfandt]

[sebbie007]

The battery is under back seat.

Red wire from regulator B + terminal going to front is solid red. All other wire directions/locations proceed as OV described and as seen on 70-71 wiring diagram.

Yes, I do believe there will be a need to get readings for continuity at some point. I'm still with fingers crossed that there will be a simple fix here soon and then a move to a complete rewiring before 2013, which was the plan anyway.

One thing I'm unschooled about is the sequence of polarization: is it regulator then generator or vice-versa? This, as is plain, would speak to continuity starting at hood.

[sebbie007]

OV, was there something you wanted to add about 9 and 10 cutting off on key turn?

[ovghiaguy]

[ovghiaguy]

I would guess this vehicle is not your daily driver. You mentioned you want to do a total re-wire. At this point it's safe to say the flasher relay is toast. Are you planning to re-wire car yourself? If you are,take as many pictures of wiring as you can even tho they won't be of much help later. Get a legal pad and do drawings of where the wires go and mark all of the wires. I used an electricians marking pad with the sticky numbers and letters available at hardware store. You will be on a first name basis with all of the wires and circuits when you are done if you do it yourself. I think to get your wiring back to original it will take all of this but it's easy 1 piece at a time. Consider getting an escutchon tool from KGPR or somebody to remove headlight and flasher switches. Removing steering wheel and speedo helps working on switches also. Hope I don't sound like a windbag. these are things I learned when re-wiring my 70.

[sebbie007]

What would cause this problem?

Red direct from battery positive reads hot off and on regulator B + terminal with switch in off position. Turn switch on and that red reads dead on regulator terminal, as does B out to front loom. Pull that red off, and it reads hot. Touch that red to B on regulator, current off. The prior three events happen with switch off.