Broken crank? No just dowel pins.

MMW · Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:19 am Post subject:

Don't have the pins or new gland nut yet but does anyone know the torque spec for the gland nut & the pressure plate bolts? I have read differing amounts ranging from 250 all the way to 425 ft lbs. for the gland nut. That's a big difference. It is a 200mm clutch if that makes a difference. 616/39 case & looks to be a regular crank.

As far as hardness I don't have access to anyone with a rockwell tester but I to would be curious. Who knows how old these pins are.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

Glenn · Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:37 am Post subject:

For VWs the the torque range depends on the glad nut. Stock is around 250-275, but if you have a forged gland nut you can increase it to 400+.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
HBB/RW
www.DasVolks.com
Long Island's Aircooled Club

MMW · Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:13 am Post subject:

Found a chart in the registry site that has the gland nut at 350 ft. pds. & the pressure plate bolts at 15-18 ft. pds. Now it seems I may have ordered the wrong seal. Everyone is saying to use the viton seal & trim the secondary lip. I ordered the regular seal so it looks like I'm going reorder to get the viton one as that seems to be what was in there without the lip trimmed. My parts should be in any day so I'll see what comes & compare it to what I took out. All thanks for the help I have gotten.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

mtwrench540 · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: cranky

r39o is right on,crank out machine shop with vast 356 experience!!try vic skirmits! or the guy in new cumberland,pa,closer to you,can never rember his name! got it it's dennis frick!!!!

MMW · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject:

Install questions. How far do the dowel pins go in? Bottom them out or leave them stick out a specified amount? Green loctite on the pins? Red loctite on the gland nut? Special grease in the gland nut bushing? Just waiting for my viton oil seal & then I'm good to assemble.

My Elfrinks book can't arrive soon enough.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

MMW · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject:

Anyone know how far the dowel pins are supposed to go in? I got all my parts but not sure if the dowel pins go in the crank until bottoming out or have a measured stick out? I don't have a book yet & I searched long & hard for this answer but can't find anybody mentioning dowel pin installation. I don't want to install them only to find out there is some measurement.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

MoPor · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject:

I don't know but in the absence of a proper spec I would take some measurements of the bore depths and make sure the dowels are in the crank 50-60 per cent of the dowel pin length. The dowels need to be deep enough that they dont move around. My 0.02 cents and probably overpriced. Smile

_________________
Matt

'58 356A coupe
'95 993 coupe

MMW · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject:

I'll mic them later tonight but the pin is about 7/16" long & the old ones were in about just shy of 5/16" which leaves about a fat 1/8" sticking out. I believe they were bottomed but not positive. It just seems they should be longer? They were only in the flywheel about half the thickness of the flange. I'll get some real measurements later.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

Jacks · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject:

If the dowel pins are recessed below the surface of the flywheel when all is installed, all is good.
_________________
Jack Staggs
Actual name

MMW · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:20 am Post subject:

New pins are in. Went in nicely with no play until they bottomed out in the crank.. Had to tap them in. Pins are .472" long & went in the crank .332" leaving .140" sticking out. My flywheel is .250" thick & the crush washer is .005" where it mates to the crank so no issues with them hitting the gland nut. The new gland nut from Stoddard says right on the box torque to 400-450 ft. pds. Hopefully get the clutch & flywheel back on tonight. I'll check endplay first, hopefully no issue there.

Why the difference in the gland nuts? The one that came out has a bearing in it & the new one from Stoddard has a bushing? How does the bushing get lubed after the initial assembly?
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

MMW · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject:

Disregard all my measurements in this post. I don't know where I went wrong but will go through it again. Found my problem as I was using the wrong conversion. This is why I hate doing stuff at night when I'm tired. To easy to make a simple mistake. I will leave this post alone so people can see how easy it is to look stupid.

(((This thing is driving me nuts. Go to check the end play just for kicks & realize I have four shims two @ .009" & two @ .011" which = .040". All is good with end play at .005" but I see that Porsche & others only recommend using one shim. I can't find one shim at .040 (1.575mm.) The best I can come up with is using two shims @ .0203 (.8mm). If I go with two shims I would still be with in tolerence. Stoddard has shims up to about .029" (1.15mm) & then they jump to .071" (2.8mm) with nothing in between. I am inclined to leave the current set of shims in. Any thoughts?))))
So i just read all I care to on this. Jack Staggs says it's a no-no to use stacked shims & Al Zim says it is o/k. I guess I'll have to choose myself but please feel free to weigh in on this.

Sorry for misspelling your name.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

Jacks · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject:

Calculations don't jive.
http://www.trueknowledge.com/q/convert_.040_inch_into_mm
http://www.trueknowledge.com/q/1.575_mm_to_inches
stoddard parts shim range #8 NOT SUPER 90!!!
http://www.stoddard.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=26&cat=Crankshaft+Parts
More variables exist. I will post more tomorrow eve.
Jack Staggs (I don't know why, but this name has been butchered more than any 356. WTF?)
_________________
Jack Staggs
Actual name

MMW · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:58 am Post subject:

So in my previous post last night as Jack pointed out my "calculations don't jive". Of course they didn't as I was using the wrong conversion off the top of my head, just stupid for not looking it up. 1mm is = to .03937". So since my end play is fine with a .040" shim stack I will order a 1mm (.03937") & a 1.1 (.04330) shim. One of these should put me within spec of .005" to .0065".

Thank you to Jack & others for all your help with not only me but to everyone on this forum.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

MMW · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:40 am Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Finally got the motor bolted back in last night. Still have to finish hooking up everything though. So far so good. Everything fit nicely as it should. Cut the outer lip off the Viton seal. Gland nut torqued to 425 ft. pds. & pressure plate bolts to 18 ft. pds. I also greased the bushing in the gland nut with moly grease & put a new starter bushing in.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

MMW · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:59 am Post subject:

Before I put it in I adjusted the valves to .005" intakes & .007" exhausts. All were very close & none were on the tight side. The worst one was an exhaust at .010". Set the points to .016" & the timing statically to 5* before tdc. I found the points were closed up to .009". I wish I checked the timing before I adjusted the points because the timimg was way advanved. Not sure if it all came from the point adjustment or not. Saying my prayers that it will fire up & have no issues.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

savaden · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject:

The published torque in the 356 manual was 350 lbs plus or minus. The published torque in the 912 manual was 250 lbs plus or minus. Since nothing changed, it has been assumed that the 250 lb value was an error. The torque value for the "super" gland nuts is in the 425 lb range. Nowadays, I would always replace the original gland nut with one of the new "super" gland nuts, whether it needed it or not.

SV

MMW · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject:

Got it running today! Still on the lift I let it run for a few minutes. No weird noises. Shut it down, gave it a look over, then cleaned up & got it back on the ground. Fired it again & let it run for 5 minutes. All looked & sounded good so took it for a short ride that turned into a 30 minute ride. Seems fine. Wow I missed driving it. Good timing as a thunder storm is rolling through now & it's back in the garage.

Thank you all who replied with suggestions & info. It was much appreciated.
_________________
Mic McWilliams
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Anybody have it?

MoPor · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject:

Great news Mic!
_________________
Matt

'58 356A coupe
'95 993 coupe

jjjjack · Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:51 am Post subject:

That's great to hear....much better than it could have been!
_________________
Jack Stenner
1967 21 Window WT
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe

>Help >Donate >Buy Shirts >Register >Log in	See all Samba banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

Broken crank? No just dowel pins.
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3

	Forum Index -> Porsche - 356	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3