Aloha, help please with 56 oval 36hp

[jediboss]

Aloha Folks-
It has been a while for me being apart of the great vw community. My wife and I became caregivers for her mother and the little car had to go into "hiding," as they say.

Quick history, I am in Northern, CA and my 56 oval was blessed to be worked on by Ray Schubert of Volks Authority (I believe he is working these days on a private collection of cars).

So, the last major service I had on my vehicle was by Ray in late 2004. I would start the car from time to time but that stopped as well in 2006/2007.

My engine is a stock 36hp that Ray had gone through and brought up to snuff and it has one of the first Judson's that he rebuilt (I had gotten it from a friend in the islands).

So, I have wanted to get it up and running again. I have changed the oil, the battery and tried to siphon out the old gas and put in some new. The coil, cap, rotor, plugs and wires were new back in 2004 and I did not put that many miles on the car at that time. So, the good news is that the engine cranks over but it is not starting.

I did notice in the fuel tank some rust and flakes that have settle to the bottom of the tank. So, I am sure at some point I will have to have someone boil-clean out the tank and re-coat the inside. Is it hard to take out the gas tank? What parts would you replace once it is out? Mine is the original and has never been out. In the San Francisco Bay area are there shops that specialize in cleaning out the gas tanks and make them like "new" again on the inside?

Besides the gas tank, what other areas should I deal with that will hopefully help to not only turn over the engine but get it to start? Mine is also the original 6volt system. For those of you who know Ray's work, the engine, transmission still look impeccable like he worked on it yesterday.

Any help, advice, pointers would be great. I hope to get the little car up and running again. Thank you very much.
Mahalo!
-kyle

[L378]

It is not hard to remove the tank and there is no need to have someone (a professional) clean and resto it for you. It's been a while, but I believe Eastwood Co. has a resto kit that will clean the tank and then seal the tank, I basically took the home school approach and used small pointed rocks and shook the tank to clean it. Then used the eastwood products. I believe POR (paint over rust) also sells a tank seal product/kit. There are plenty of other methods.

First you should check to see if you have gas getting to your carb & spark to your plugs. I would also (given how long the car has been sitting) replace/refurbish the fuel tap & fuel pump.

The problem I always encounter (after the car sits for a few months) is that my oval will not start after sitting a just a few months due to the gas in the carb evaporating and I have to resort to using starting fluid. It starts right up and after than everything is fine, starts right up on its own. If your car is spinning, my guess no gas & you just need to prime it with some starting fluid. Others are sure to offer suggestions and possibly refute what I'm saying.

[jediboss]

Aloha L378-

Thank you so much for the encouragement and advice in regard to the gas tank. I may try your method for cleaning it out and redoing it so that the rust is gone from the inside and to seal it.

You bring up an interesting thing about fuel to my carb. I was thinking about this too, now I do have my Judson as part of the system. Do you just spray the starter fluid right into the carb? I think I might have to remove one piece of the Judson to get to the chamber where fuel would be. Also, do you put some fuel in the carb as well or just the starter fluid? I also would not want to hurt anything when doing this.

Look forward to hearing from you again. Thanks for the tips!
Mahalo

[L378]

I didn't realize you still had the Judson installed. I think you just have the air filter above the carb, so remove the air filter and read the instructions for the fluid. Spray for the time listed on the container (If you want to be cautious spray less and see if it catches). Your car IF its getting spark (again check that you are getting spark at the plugs) should fire right up and race for no more than 10-15 seconds. I typically pump the accelerator prior to spraying the fluid and once your car fires wait a few seconds and pump the accelerator a couple more times - its kind of like priming'charging the system. My recommendation is if you can get someone to help enlist their aid just so you can watch the engine, just makes things easier (your not running from engine to seat)

As for the gas tank I've read where other have used chains - anything that will knock the loose rust off the tank and then seal - a bit messy but it works pretty well.

Your car just from sitting may be dry. Check brake lines (rubber?) as well. Good luck.

[3foldfolly]

If your car has sat for 5 or 6 years the carb will be all gunked up and you'll have to rebuild it.

[jediboss]

Aloha L378-

Thank you for the heads up on the amount to spray in. I hope that maybe, just maybe with the starter fluid and if it catches that it might help to break up and clean stuff that is in the carb. I see another poster said that maybe my carb needs to be rebuilt. Not sure what is involved with that. I hope that the starter fluid might do the trick. Also, if it turns over and runs can I later spray carb cleaner inside while it is installed, then start it and burn off the excess?

Lastly, in regard to getting a spark: Would the easiest way to check be for someone to be in the drivers seat, turning the key-ignition and I am at the engine, with say the plug coming out of the ignition coil almost out of the top of the distributor cap so I can see if a spark is taking place? Trying to figure out what is the best and safest way to check for a spark.

Thanks again for your help!
Mahalo!

[tasb]

Turn the ignition on go back to engine pop off the cap use a plastic handles screwdriver to manualy open the points enough and you should get a spark.
_________________
Roads Scholar & distributor restorations
1956 oval third owner 36 hp
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equiped M 178
1960 sunroof beetle owned since 1991 36 hp
1965 hrdtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

[jediboss]

Aloha Tasb & L378-

Well, I must be getting a spark because I took off the Judson Air Cleaner and sprayed in the starter fluid into the carb for 3 seconds, according to the directions.

The Good: it was wonderful to hear my engine start up!

The Sad: did not stay on for long (maybe it was only running off of the starter fluid?).

I tried another 4 times then thought I should give her a rest.

So, I think the spark must be working fine since the engine did turn over. Is there a way to check to make sure fuel is getting to the carb?

Also, when you add in the starter fluid do you open up the choke or do you leave it closed? I was trying with both. I also pump the gas pedal a few times as well.

Look forward to hearing from you and thank you so much, just to hear the engine come on was awesome!

Mahalo!

[Major Woody]

STOP.
Change all your flexible fuel lines from the tank to the tunnel and from the tunnel to the engine and from the pump to the carb. Don't try to run the car until this is done.
Use Gates reinforced standard line, not the cloth braided stuff which doesn't seem to stand up to ethanol.
THEN solve your fuel problem.

[3foldfolly]

[jediboss]

Aloha Major Woody-
Thank you for your advice! Is it difficult to access all the areas where the fuel hosing is? Of course on the engine itself is no problem. I guess I am trying to figure out if I have to take stuff apart in order to get at the fuel lines. Do I have to have the car jacked up or not?

Also, thank you in regard to the hose advice because I was just thinking of going to Wolfsburg West and ordering some things from them (fuel tap, gasket that goes around the tank, fuel lines and the screen that goes over the fuel tap). I am not sure if they are the only ones that carry correct parts for our older vehicles but I will definitely look into the Gates reinforced fuel line. Do you know what size it is? I hope I can find that brand at Napa or even Autozone.

Mahalo

PS: I also saw the other posting about rebuilding the carb. Maybe after I replace the hoses if it is still not taking then I bet I will need to look at the carb, fuel pump and so forth.